Anonymous #1 3w

Trans men are men though. Men cannot identify as lesbian, that completely invalidates themselves I fear.

1

Anonymous OP 3w

TransMASCULINE individuals are different. They don't fully identify as a male, so they can be lesbians.

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Anonymous OP 3w

Trans men are men! Men can be lesbians if they feel that is the most accurate label for their sexuality :)

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Anonymous #1 3w

Then... they are straight...? I fear you've lost the plot.

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Anonymous OP 3w

Nope, they are lesbians 👍 straight trans men are also cool though!

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Anonymous OP 3w

Transmasculine people can also be lesbians, yes, much like trans men can!

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Anonymous #1 3w

How are they lesbians? This whole new thing of any queer adjacent person being able to identify as a lesbian COMPLETELY erases the terms original context and meaning. Quite frankly, id say it almost invalidates lesbians in a way.

1

Anonymous #1 3w

This is rough. I feel like I'm arguing with a brick wall. Everybody wants to be quirky so they try and define themselves anyway that doesn't make them "normal." Being straight is okay, and it's unfortunate that some individuals are so insecure about it.

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Anonymous OP 3w

Okay, I'm going to try to actually help you understand rather than just repeating myself over and over. Most of the trans men i know who identify as lesbian use the term to express that their attraction to women is inherently queer/non-normative. 1/?

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Anonymous OP 3w

This can be for multiple reasons: 1) a lot of them grew up in lesbian/queer women's circles before coming out and still feel a connection to that community; 2) their experiences dating are functionally more similar to those of a lesbian than those of an "average" straight man (in terms of oppression, difficulty finding a partner, partners using them as "experiments", etc). 2/?

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Anonymous #1 3w

they can't have a "queer" attraction... what does that even MEAN. There's no way you're going to help me "understand" when you're the one lacking comprehension and competence.

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Anonymous #1 3w

Just because they have new challenges they have to overcome doesn't mean that they can just borrow a term not meant for them! Yeah, it's hard leaving a community, but it's literally NOT FOR THEM anymore.

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Anonymous OP 3w

There are more possible reasons a trans guy could feel like his attraction to women is queer but those are the two most common ones i've seen. This brings me to my second point: language isn't perfect. A lot of the terminology we have when it comes to sexuality and gender is very rudimentary, and it can be difficult to express a concept like "man who is attracted to women in a queer way and has been in lesbian relationships prior to transitioning" while identifying as straight. 3/4

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Anonymous #1 3w

There is no such thing as liking someone "in a queer way." That is such a contradicting social concept deemed in only small groups of individuals. By this metric, a cis man who previously had been transgender, or any other term, could call themselves lesbian because they were apart of that community for so long and resonate with the term more....

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Anonymous OP 3w

It's not an attempt to be "quirky" or unique; I'd say it's kinda the opposite. Lesbian trans men are trying to find a way to signal that, because of their experiences as trans people, their sexuality feels inherently queer. It's a way to find community more than anything, or a way to tell other queer people "hey, my experiences with sexuality align more with yours than with those of Joe Straightman over there". I hope this explanation helped somewhat! yikyak character limit is evil :/ 4/4

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Anonymous OP 3w

I'm not saying that the concepts of "queer" and "non-queer" attraction are something intrinsic to human beings, but queer people tend to face similar patterns of oppression and similar difficulties when it comes to sex and dating. This is one of the main reasons queer communities form. When I say "queer attraction" I am referring to attraction that is discriminated against by heteronormative society.

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Anonymous OP 3w

And yeah if a hypothetical formerly trans cis guy who had spent a lot of time in lesbian circles wanted to identify as lesbian, who would I be to stop him? That's his choice and he's obviously using that label for a reason

2

Anonymous OP 3w

most detransitioners still don’t identify as cis or they were forced to detransition because of their environment. not a very good hypothetical

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Anonymous #2 3w

Most, not all..... so my hypothetical still stands.........

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Anonymous OP 3w

my point here is it seems you like to talk about trans people without actually listening to trans people

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Anonymous #2 3w

I'm literally transfem wtf are you on

1

Anonymous OP 3w

my bad i apologize. i shouldn’t have assumed.

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Anonymous OP 2w

No op you are correct. I saw someone talk about how this is only a thing when it comes to being a lesbian and how yet again a mostly female space is now having to make room for men. I’m not gonna argue with someone irl if they say they are a man and a lesbian but I don’t think they can be and I think it’s invalidating so many people

-1

Anonymous #1 2w

Cis men can never be lesbians

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Anonymous #5 2w

I care about the wrong agendas being spread, as it's harmful to queer youth.

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Anonymous OP 2w

you can take agenda at deez nuts

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Anonymous #5 2w

If you insist

0

Anonymous #3 2w

I’m not sure it’s necessarily a question of joining a space though. It’s not like lesbians around the world share a singular group chat. Labels help you describe yourself to others more than anything else, and if people find lesbian to be the best description for them, that’s fine. The only person that would potentially invalidate is themselves, as far as I can see it, or potentially other trans men who feel like it makes them generally not seem serious.

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Anonymous #3 2w

the thing is that transmascs and trans men have always been in lesbian spaces throughout history. this is not some new thing. if you go to any larger lesbian or events sapphic events you will see lesbians on T, he/him lesbians, transmasc and trans man lesbians.

8