Anonymous justinian 1w

This is like saying anything with a potato is illegitimate cuisine outside of Peru

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Anonymous justinian 1w

"Pedantry" is not the direction I'm going with, this but thanks for your input. Most dishes that people consider Israeli are not actually Israeli.

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 1w

I really don’t much understand this line. Like… there’s a lot of Jewish dishes that are now mostly found in Israel (like bourekas) because those Jews were expelled from their home countries. It’s like those people why try to argue that American cuisine doesn’t exist because “it all came from either Europe, Africa, or Native Americans.” Like yeah that’s how settler colonies work why is food relevant here that’s like the least of the issues at hand

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Anonymous #2 1w

That's a Turkish dish. That's like trying to call Spaghetti American. Just because it is served there doesn't make it Israeli. Show me a dish that originated in Israel. Settler colonies don't get to claim food from other cultures as their own, dude

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Anonymous #2 1w

"Mostly found in Israel" ≠ Israeli

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 1w

Hamburgers came from a German root. Pizza comes from Italy. Grits were invented by native Americans. We still call those American food usually. In a settler colony all food is either going to develop from indigenous groups, settlers, or the people who fall in between. We don’t argue about whether Australian cuisine exists. Also there are examples that fit your criteria, like ptitim, and debatably tzfatit and orez shu’it depending on if you have a timeline cutoff.

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Anonymous #2 1w

Like settler colonialism is a self-evidently bad thing I don’t see the need to make up bad arguments about food. Yeah an 80 year old country primarily split between indigenous people and the descendants of colonists and refugees is going to have food mostly from indigenous people, colonists, and refugees. That’s not particularly profound or relevant to anything important (beyond separate conversations about appropriation of Palestinian cuisine)

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 1w

It’s a Jewish dish… a kosher version of the turkish dish that was developed nearly 600 years before Israel. Like wow Jewish cuisine developed in parallel to the places different Jewish groups lived, fucking crazy.

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Anonymous #2 1w

Hamburgers are American The Hamburg steak is German yes. But putting it on a bun so it’s a sandwich, and ESPECIALLY the modern version including like cheese and ketchup. That’s American. Not German.

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Anonymous #4 1w

Yeah exactly. It has origins somewhere else but was modified in a new location. Just like how there are new types of non-traditional bourekas in Israel, or how modern Israeli mezes have different ingredients. All food comes from earlier food traditions, modified over time.

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Anonymous #3 1w

It is still served in Turkey. It didn't disappear and relocate to Israel. And it being 600 years old changes NOTHING

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Anonymous #2 1w

Wrong and wrong, those are completely different dishes with the same name. Meanwhile the dish you're claiming is Israeli is still served in the country it originated in

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Anonymous #2 1w

Hamburgers are completely different than a plain steak. I'd argue pizza is still Italian even though American pizza is pretty different from Italian pizza. At the very least we acknowledge its Italian roots and don't try to pretend it's something of our own creation, the way Israel tries to do with all of their "culture" Israel is not even 80 years old. They don't have culture. It's just a bunch of people from Europe and elsewhere. We barely have any culture here in the US and we're older

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 1w

Jewish people have existed for thousands of years… Jewish people absolutely have a culture (more accurately several)

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Anonymous #3 1w

I said Israel not Judaism.

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 1w

Ptimin was created in Israel in the 1950s tzfatit and orez shu’it were both made by Jewish communities in Palestine soon before Israel was independent. And considering we don’t say political independence is when culture starts, I think those have to count. 80 years is plenty long enough to develop a culture, that’s enough for three generations of people to be born there. The cultures of North and South Korea have diverged plenty in less time.

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Anonymous #2 1w

Israel has developed its own distinct political ideologies, identity, and it literally revived a dead language. The kibbutzim are a distinct cultural phenomenon not found in pre-Zionist Jewish culture. Even the national myths and historical revisionism and the tradition of appropriation itself are part of culture. Settler colonial cultures are distinctive and exist separate from where the settlers originated. Acknowledging that is not an endorsement of settler colonialism.

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