Anonymous #3 5w

And this also feels kind of weird to me. Like it is seemingly arguing in the interests of not exploiting the labor of immigrants but… they want a job. They have better opportunities here than in their home countries. If they didn’t they wouldn’t be here. Banning immigration doesn’t help those workers. They are exploited and we need to fix that but for them it’s better than the alternative.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

Any Econ 101 class will show you more people does not equal more jobs. In theory it may work like that but in reality it just doesn’t. Further more I feel that we don’t owe jobs to people who live in poorer countries simply because they want/need it. There are millions of Americans that should take priority over them.

1

Anonymous OP 5w

You can look it up and find dozens of reputable sources with statistics of how immigrants create more jobs than they take up. Also, if we are going down the “USA should be selfish” route. I wonder what caused countries like El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Nicaragua to be destabilized and poor… probably all those American coups, banana republics, and proxy wars.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

And the American politicians who want to give rid of immigrants aren’t going to do jack shit to help poor Americans. Their big priority right now is cutting social services. They just tell people giving rid of immigrants will help because then the poor will ignore the billionaires.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

That’s life unfortunately, you’re either a conqueror or get conquered. America would be foolish to not exploit what they can. It’s a hard truth of geopolitics. If Latin America switched roles with US do you think they wouldn’t exploit other countries to maintain or gain power? Life is one big competition and putting others before yourself will never workout for anyone.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

And honestly yes, getting the illegal immigrants out is a step in the right direction. The reason both democrats and republicans both want H1-B visas is because large corporations can hire these skilled workers for Pennies on the dollar compared to an American. Importing labor is a Fortune 500 CEO’s wet dream.

1

Anonymous OP 5w

Realized that was a little off topic but I do genuinely believe our social services are being abused and drained by people who by all means are more than able to work or who are not here legally.

1

Anonymous OP 5w

I think democratic societies have a responsibility to lift one another up. The eras of conquest and strife were not good.

1

Anonymous OP 5w

I think companies should be required to pay their workers more. This is a workers rights issue. So long as we allow companies to exploit their workers they will seek out the cheapest labor possible. In the past, poor blacks were often used as strikebreakers and companies used racism to turn white and black workers against one another and prevent labor organization.

1

Anonymous OP 5w

The statistics generally suggest that snap fraud is rare. But I would rather the people who need it get it with some abuse than cut off the people that need it. Snap doesn’t cost that much considering all the tax breaks and government subsidies we give huge companies.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

Ok, if companies are required to pay workers more, what is more? How do we determine what “more” is without wrecking the rest of our economy? We cannot legislate wages beyond federal minimum wage because worker pay is subject to what a company is able to produce at a profit. It is up to the labor pool and those who are paying them to determine what a fair wage is, if you flood said labor pool with people who are willing to work for less, then the average wage goes down and qualifications go with

1

Anonymous OP 5w

Well we do obviously need to raise the federal minimum wage, but across industries many probably should be higher than that depending on the kind of job. I think encouraging unionization is one way to facilitate higher wages among workers, and it should be made harder for companies to hire scabs. Another way I think could be to tie worker wage to corporate profit. Wages have to be a set proportion of the profit. Another option is more worker-owned companies but that depends on industry.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

Honestly I can agree with you on some of those points. My main concern however is American labor (skilled or unskilled) being imported in. As long as that is a viable option our most valuable companies will continue to take advantage of it and bribe our politicians to vote in favor of it. Right now Canada is going through hell, 35% of their population increase was due to the importation of Indian/Hindu migrants. A population decline is a natural and stabilizing occurrence that bring balance.

1

Anonymous OP 5w

But speaking on what you said, when we regulate business operations it often has far reaching consequences, if we are to implement these wage increases it would have to be sector by sector while also insuring that American citizens are the priority in hiring.

1

Anonymous OP 5w

I think maybe the main difference is that I take a global humanistic view of things. I don’t really prioritize people from one country over another. So while I think it’s bad that companies use foreign labor as a cost-cutting measure and that has hurt some American laborers, I’m also glad that people from poorer countries have a chance to send money back to help their families or to stay here and become American.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

So I think that if we are to try to decrease a reliance on foreign labor, that that has to be tied to increasing opportunities for jobs and social advancement in countries those people are coming from. Because companies intentionally target illegal immigrants at risk of deportation because they are willing to work for less.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

This is actually why migrant labor activist Cesar Chavez was very against illegal immigrants, they were easy scabs. And a lot of legal migrant labor has moved farther and farther north as illegal immigrants take up jobs in the south for less pay. So even if there were efforts to completely ban migrant labor, that means that you will still have some reduced number of migrant laborers who are more likely to be human trafficked and willing to work in even worse conditions.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

So you have to work to make life more liveable where these people are coming from, because enforcement is a double edged sword. It is likely to reduce illegal labor to some degree, but it will drive what remains even farther underground.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

You know, I fully understand and respect that position, I would support it too if it meant that everyone else would also equally benefit. But given what I have learned in my Econ classes and what I have observed in my day to day to life I just can’t bring myself to agree with it. However I very much respect the conversation we had, it was the most civil and clarifying I have ever had on here. If you would like to discuss more please dm me, you are clearly a smart and agreeable person.

3

Anonymous OP 5w

I enjoyed having a thought out and amicable discussion as well. I’m not sure if I have much else left to add, as I think I presented my thoughts in just about their entirety, but the offer to DM goes in your direction also if you feel you have more to say.

4

Anonymous OP 5w

I greatly appreciate it when someone else is having a discussion with honest intentions and with a willingness to hear the other person out and consider their own position. I feel that many people on the internet do not have interests in honest discussions and are more invested in creating chaos or “winning”

6

Anonymous #3 5w

Honestly I think I have tired my points out as well, but I wish you the best in your day to day. You’ve helped me understand others views and I am appreciative of that.

4

Anonymous OP 5w

Same goes for you. I think being able to understand where someone else is coming from, even if you don’t agree with it, shows humility, intelligence, and empathy. Thanks for taking the time to listen and communicating your side of things also. Plus not being dicks to each other makes the whole experience much more pleasant for everyone. Good luck to ya.

6