Anonymous #2 2w

But yes you are correct, you can and should be both anti Zionism and not antisemitic

19

Anonymous #2 2w

The ADL cares more about people like Hasan Piker than people like Nick Fuentes, unserious organization

6

Anonymous #4 2w

it’s bc Zionists try to define Zionism in a way that doesn’t include the inherent dispossession of Palestinians and colonization of Palestine even tho Zionism requires those two things

13

Anonymous #4 2w

so ask people how they define Zionism, and if the answer is anything other than “The late 19th century political ideology of Jewish Nationalism which advocates the creation and maintenance of a State of Israel” then correct it (if it seems honestly mistaken), or dismiss it (if they seem like a Nazi).

17

Anonymous #1 2w

You see my definition of Zionism has always been that Jews have the right to live peacefully in their homeland and have self-determination. Now I also believe that Palestinians have the right to self determination and live peacefully in their homeland. Israel/Palestine/Canaan/Judea, whatever you want to call it, should be a land where everyone is free to practice their religion and live freely without oppression.

4

Anonymous #4 2w

and your definition doesn’t match the definition of Zionism Zionism is a colonial ideology

7

Anonymous #2 2w

Didn’t the ADL imply Ms Rachel was more antisemitic than Nick Fuentes

14

Anonymous #1 2w

Again, Zionist views have varied over time and are not uniform, which has resulted in a variety of types of Zionism.

-2

Anonymous #4 2w

I mean if you truly want a state in modern day Israel that allows religious freedom you have to be anti-Zionist, Zionists want Israel to have as many Jews and as few Palestinians as possible, it’s inherent to Zionism

5

Anonymous #4 2w

Uh-oh here comes the “Liberal” Zionist to tell us how Israel should only be blowing up the men, and they’re scandalized by the killings of women and children. But also they’re also not gonna condemn the Israeli state as it *exists* now because some dude from way before 1948 thought it would require less bloodshed than it actually did.

10

Anonymous #1 2w

We’re both definitely pulling from Zionism’s Wikipedia page, but Israel absolutely guarantees freedom of religion. It’s perhaps the most diverse country in the Middle East and is surrounded by literal theocratic states.

-1

Anonymous cheese_of_the_world_unite 2w

Israel shouldn’t be blowing up anyone when did I ever say that?

0

Anonymous #4 2w

Also, Zionism is a very young ideology. It hasn’t had THAT much time or multiple attempted implementations to have different forms and strains. Zionism came into form in the 1890s with Theodor Herzl. It is by no means inseparable from Jewish tradition, nationhood, or identity. As is clearly evidenced by the fact that there were Jews for ~4900 years prior to there being Zionists.

5

Anonymous #4 2w

Israel is literally an apartheid state dumbass

3

Anonymous cheese_of_the_world_unite 2w

The GOP has existed roughly that long and it has definitely had time to have different forms and strains. To say that about Zionism is just factually incorrect.

-1

Anonymous #4 2w

if you support Zionism, you support a fascistic ideology

4

Anonymous #4 2w

I was doing a hyperbolic bit about how “Liberal Zionism” exists to talk out both corners of one’s mouth, to simultaneously support Israel while also disavowing all that Israel’s existence entails. Which is not a trait exclusive to Zionism, it’s the job of the Liberal under any hyper-nationalistic/fascist system. To soften the blow by “dissenting” but never meaningfully change what’s happening.

11

Anonymous #1 2w

An apartheid state where there are religious minorities serving in government? An apartheid state where religious minorities can vote?

4

Anonymous #4 2w

Palestinians have diff roads with military checkpoints, live in diff poorer communities, are arbitrarily detained, lack the same infrastructure, etc. 🫩

1

Anonymous #4 2w

The GOP is a party, not an ideology. And yeah, if someone was like “oh well I’m a registered Republican in 2026 because I support the abolition of slavery and preservation of the Union” I would also say “that’s not what a Republican is in 2026, dummy”

10

Anonymous #1 2w

Then that’s wrong.

-1

Anonymous #1 2w

Look I hope you understand that I want peace as much as you do. I’m just concerned for myself and my family because we Jews have historically been scapegoated for everything that goes wrong in the world and I’m scared of it happening again. I don’t want people’s anger being brought out on me because of the evil actions of a few.

0

Anonymous #4 2w

That’s why we blame Zionists and not Jews, bc Zionists are the ones that justify and commit such acts, not all Jews are Zionists

9

Anonymous #4 2w

Zionism is the ideology of the Israeli government. Its long term goal is the annexation of Gaza, West Bank, Golan Heights, and more, and to make Israel a majority Jewish state by both policy and force. What should be happening there is the creation of a state that is neither bluntly Israeli/Jewish or Palestinian/Muslim, instead being a neutral state that respects both parties equally. A federation of some sort

9

Anonymous #1 2w

But there are people who have taken their valid criticism of Israel and have turned it into conspiracy theories against Jews. Look all over Twitter. People are blaming us for 9/11, JFK, the Titanic, Charlie Kirk, everything. I fear it’s only going to get worse from here.

0

Anonymous #4 2w

yeah that is anti-Semitic, but that doesn’t mean we should defend Zionism and colonialism

3

Anonymous #1 2w

I’m not trying to defend colonialism I’m trying to defend our right to exist

5

Anonymous #4 2w

There’s literally always been antisemitic conspiracy theories, and they’re usually pretty damn separate from conversations around Palestinian liberation. The people who blame the Jews for everything are Nazis. Nazis hate Palestinians too, they hate all Muslims, they hate all Arabs. And I’m frankly sick of pro-Israel people acting like every negative thing said about Israel falls under the same category of “antisemitic conspiracy theory” when you can kinda just sniff-test this kinda shit.

10

Anonymous #4 2w

Jewish people have a right to exist, ofc, Israel doesn’t because there is no such thing as the right for a country to exist

7

Anonymous #1 2w

Look at all the recent replies I’ve posted - Ones where I’ve even said it’s ok to criticize and oppose the Israeli government but have held concern for the safety of Jews. They still get downvoted. Is it valid for me to be concerned that this is bigger than hating Israel?

1

Anonymous #4 2w

Mfs will literally be existing, not even in Israel, talking about some “our right to exist” when Israel gets called illegitimate.

5

Anonymous #4 2w

Nobody makes Jewish people less safe today than Israel, both within and outside its borders. Do you know how much of a fucking win Israel is to actual antisemites? Israel constantly claims to be representing all Jews, and then does awful fucking shit. Now obviously, we’re all smart enough to go “oh well Israel is lying about representing all Jews, they clearly don’t” but if someone actually believed Israel represents the Jews, like Israel says they do, man that does not look good.

9

Anonymous cheese_of_the_world_unite 2w

The best way for Jewish identity to be protected would be to reject the fascist regime that’s claiming that all of their atrocities have been done in the name of Jewish identity. Giving the antisemites a country with a Star of David on the flag that commits mass murder, bribes American politicians (AIPAC campaign funding is a matter of public record), and goes unquestioned by the international system is NOT gonna disprove their dumb pre-conceived notions, I’ll tell you that much.

11

Anonymous #4 2w

it’s valid to be concerned about anti-Semitism, but Israel’s actions do a lot to contribute to that antisemitism, when the country that supposedly represents Judaism levels cities and calls criticism antisemitism, actual antisemites are going to be emboldened

6

Anonymous #1 2w

So what do you want me to do? I can’t control what Israel does. The only thing I can do is commit to being the best version of myself everyday and being a good citizen, but what if people still hate me for that because I’m Jewish? And please don’t tell me that it won’t happen, because I’ve done everything I could to live by that everyday and I still experience antisemitism. I’m tired. I’m exhausted.

2

Anonymous #7 2w

yes, it is possible, but I would also argue that those Zionists are misguided and don’t realize that Netanyahu reflects the true nature of Zionism more accurately than their portrayals

1

Anonymous #1 2w

Your idea of the “true nature of Zionism” is something that exists in your head, not theirs.

5

Anonymous #1 2w

Nick Fuentes is very unambiguous in his antisemitism, whereas Hasan shrouds it cleverly in leftist rhetoric about an elite class, billionaires, and antizionism. His uncle seems to have let the mask slip completely but Hasan has not. Hasan has the potential to expose many more people to antisemitic ideas because he is not immediately identifiable as antisemitic and therefore does not immediately repel people who are antiracist.

5

Anonymous #7 2w

yes, bc they are unaware that Zionism is a colonial ideology that requires the dispossession of Palestinians and colonization of Palestine

0

Anonymous #7 2w

Not defending Hasan, but he comes off way more as an anti-Zionist than an actual antisemite

13

Anonymous #1 2w

Again, that is your definition which is awash in historical incidentals and disregards the original principle.

8

Anonymous #7 2w

the original principle is colonialism, the original Zionists literally said it themselves…

0

Anonymous #7 2w

Read some Herzl before defending Zionism 😭

0

Anonymous #1 2w

Deliberately. But there’s a reason he dismisses antisemitism among Hezbollah, the Houthis, Hamas, the PLO, and the Iranian regime. It’s the same reason people excuse Trump’s blatant racism. They agree, they just know better than to admit it.

8

Anonymous #7 2w

PLO isn’t anti-Semitic, or at least not like the Houthis who chant “Curse the Jews” or Hamas who wrote “death to Jews” in their charter or the Iranian regime who sponsors Holocaust denial If he excuses that then that’s awful, but also not as dangerous to Jews as neo-Nazism

0

Anonymous #1 2w

I have read Herzl and others. You’re applying a modern academic definition of colonialism to writing from over 100 years ago that uses the word when it was not necessarily meant to describe your idea of the thing. Idk if you think you can just read and know things and that is equivalent to understanding, but you clearly have a way to go.

8

Anonymous #7 2w

Denying what is plainly obvious is the Zionist way

-1

Anonymous #7 2w

what about Zionism doesn’t require the full or partial acquisition of political control over Palestine, occupying it with settlers, and exploiting it economically? That is exactly what is happening, it’s by-definition colonialism?

-1

Anonymous #1 2w

What do we mean by “exploiting it economically” precisely? Your implication seems to be that Jewish Zionists engaged in a traditional European colonial effort wherein they settled an area, extracting natural resources on behalf of a foreign power, and sending the wealth and resources elsewhere to be traded, used, and hoarded. Is that what you believe happened, and if so, what resources were exploited by the mostly Jewish farmers who moved to Palestine?

5

Anonymous #7 2w

1. Israel limits Palestinian access to the Dead Sea, preventing the establishment of Palestinian mineral-based industries like cosmetics, which could contribute hundreds of millions annually 2. Israel operates 11 settlement quarries in the West Bank, selling 94% of the materials to Israel while denying permits to nearly all Palestinian-owned quarries, costing the Palestinian economy hundreds of millions annuallt

0

Anonymous #7 2w

3. Israeli settlements control 42% of West Bank land, including 85.2% of its most fertile areas, and systemically destroy Palestinian olive groves and irrigation systems. 4. The Israeli national water company, Mekorot, manages West Bank water infrastructure, forcing Palestinians to buy back water from their own aquifers at inflated prices while limiting their supply to 22% capacity in some regions.

0

Anonymous #7 2w

5. Israel maintains integrated energy systems that favor settlers while obstructing Palestinian access. It also controls the electromagnetic sphere, causing losses of tens of millions annually for Palestinian telecom operators. 6. Palestinian workers in Israeli settlements are often paid 35-50% of the legal minimum wage and lack the social protections afforded to Israeli counterparts.

1

Anonymous #1 2w

Again, you’re bringing up modern examples that are realities of a modern state existing in Israel and not existing in the West Bank. We were talking about Zionism as a concept originating in colonialist, imperialist thought. Are you done with that, or just distracted?

9

Anonymous #7 2w

7. By restricting local Palestinian industry and agriculture, Israel forces Palestinians into a dependent workforce for low-wage sectors like construction and agriculture within Israel and its settlements. 8. Since October 2023, Israel has suspended work permits for over 100,000 workers, slashing cash inflows that represented a quarter of Palestinian gross national income.

1

Anonymous #7 2w

That’s enough of that.

6

Anonymous #7 2w

Posting this for when I unblock you in a few hours #1. I’m happy to have conversations about anything as long as you stick to the topic. I’m not going to sit here and interact with you while you REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE at me.

10

To be fair this is mostly just because Mizrahi people have a much higher birth rate. They were a minority for most of the time, and even as a majority today experience discrimination. Israel was founded by Ashkenazim and took a white supremacist attitude towards Jewish people who were too “oriental” (including the community that literally already lived in Palestine before the 1st Aliyah.

1

Anonymous #7 2w

They already proved you wrong? Ffs the early leadership described it as colonialism… they literally used the word “natives” to refer to Palestinians. You’re engaging in historical revisionism.

10

Anonymous #4 2w

What safety? Israel has never been a single time made the world safer for Jewish people. You know what the safest place to be Jewish is? (And has been for upwards of 200 years?) The United States. Before that, the Ottoman Empire, then pre-partition Poland and arguably Al Andalus. It is the express policy of the Israeli government to make the rest of the world unsafe to justify its own atrocities and to encourage migration.

1

Anonymous #10 2w

You’re the one using modern definitions of words out of their historical context, same thing #1 was doing. They won’t even engage with the argument, nobody “proved me wrong”

1

Anonymous #7 2w

not talking to a Zionist anymore, I don’t debate fascists

1