Anonymous #1 1w

Do you truly believe that? That the average American doesn't value children or human life? Or do you think it's our government that doesn't hold those values?

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Anonymous OP 1w

yes, I do believe that. If the average American valued child or human life, they would be more vocal on the Epstein files. They would be more vocal on the genocide in Palestine, they would be more vocal supporting systems and programs in the United States that would support human life. The average American doesn't care about something unless it affects them and unfortunately child rape just doesn't affect them so they don't care.

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Anonymous OP 1w

if the average American valued child or human life, Trump wouldn't be in office right now.

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Anonymous OP 1w

I just think it’s a decent amount of people and people that think they can get away with anything but stats show maga has more child related sexual crimes but I personally would say it’s a certain group of people.

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Anonymous OP 1w

The government definitely doesn't hold those values and that definitely plays a part in why the American people don't care about these things. The lack of empathy started to become a problem and the government exacerbated that and now we're in this big mess.

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Anonymous #1 1w

Or, consider this, I believe that the majority of the nation as a whole does value children and human life. I think that it isn't a lack of value but rather a sense of helplessness to do anything about it.

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Anonymous OP 1w

but the votes of the majority says otherwise. they can't value human life while voting against it.

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Anonymous OP 1w

OK, then I'm done because if you can't acknowledge the fact that all of these things contribute to this then you're not worth my time

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Anonymous #1 1w

And yes I would agree, I don't believe are government hold the same values of it citizen anymore

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Anonymous #1 1w

Hey lets not just shut the conversation down?

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Anonymous OP 1w

i can and i am, and ive alr explained why

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Anonymous OP 1w

politics reflect morals.

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Anonymous OP 1w

I said that nowhere by the way, I said that your politics reflect your morals. for example, if you don't believe that rape is that big of a deal you tend to support Trump despite the way he talks about women and the allegations against him. That's a difference in morals. People's stance on ice and what they're doing. That's a difference in morals and their politics reflect that. someone's stance on gay people. Their politics will reflect the morals they hold

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Anonymous #1 1w

Perfect, thank you for clarifying! Follow-up question, would you argue that both spectrums of the political parties have nothing in common? And do not hold any of the same value?

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Anonymous OP 1w

I wouldn't say they have nothing in common because "nothing" really excludes a lot and i can't say that for certain. however, they can and do hold values that directly oppose each other.

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Anonymous #1 1w

Alright, with that in mind, on issue that both side do agree on don't you think we could make far more progress if we were willing to temporary put those differences aside and work together to see real results?

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Anonymous OP 1w

if those differences were not as significant as they are, sure. However, I can't just ignore our differences when the differences include thinking i'm less of a person or don't deserve rights because i'm transgender. it is a difference in morals and a lot of people don't want to put aside their morals, their key values.

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Anonymous #1 1w

I'm not saying or suggesting you put those values away. Rather, I'm asking if for the sake of justice and simply doing what's right could we accept that there are people that disagree with our fundamental values and instead of focusing on these differences we put our efforts into thing that both sides value.

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Anonymous OP 1w

i'm not gonna lie I'm not really interested in keeping the conversation up, but I will say that I cannot and will not work with people who are against my existence as a concept. I cannot work with people who constantly work to keep me in my community in danger. I cannot work with people who do the same to other marginalized communities. Human rights are too big of a thing to just be something you agreed to disagree on and come back to later.

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Anonymous OP 1w

I personal belive that for the sake of justice, fighting the worst kind of evil, and sending a message that human rights do matter, it is worth it.

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Anonymous #1 1w

Again thank you for your thoughts and time! Have a good evening

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Anonymous OP 1w

I’m glad you said that OP, I came here to say something similar. The majority of Americans absolutely aren’t ok with the crimes exposed in the files, they just don’t know what to do about it. Vote? Walk into the capital with a gun? What?

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

Which I personally believe is the intended effect of releasing the files in the first place. They want people to be demoralized and realize that these crimes will continue to happen wether the public is outraged or not. They want people to know that they’re powerless. We’re not; we just need to organize properly and that’s the tricky part

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

Hi! I'm not entirely sure either. However, I think to start we need to start having honest conversations

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

Yes! I completely agree with that

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Anonymous OP 1w

What do you think is missing in the conversations folks are having about this? Where’s the dishonesty you see?

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

I think the factor that is largely missing is the acknowledgment that this is larger than a political issue. There are individuals on BOTH sides of the political parties that are involved in this and in covering it up. And until that is discussed or understood I fear people are going to continue to turn this into an “us against them” situation.

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Anonymous OP 1w

I’m not really sure what you mean tbh. It is at its foundation a political issue. Decades of lenient criminal justice policies led to unaccountability for the rich and powerful in this country. MAGA extremism led to tampering and dishonest investigations into the crimes detailed in the files. Citizens United allowed businesses and their ceos to buy favors and hide their crimes if they paid enough.

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

It unfortunately is an us against them situation. Us (the people) against the unaccountable ruling class. Within that class there are two parties and one is slightly more interested in justice than the other, although both are happy to support the status quo. I’m not interested in acting like the right and left are equally guilty here though, there’s really no evidence to support that

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

I can agree that is an a people against the ruling class situation. However I would say from what I've seen both side of the people are equally interested in justice based off of conversations I've had. But I can respect you opion on that matter.

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Anonymous OP 1w

With that in mind, just because we have differing opinions, do you think we couldn't agree and unite against something we both fundamentally is wrong?

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Anonymous OP 1w

Have you seen that play out in the federal government? If you look at all the attempts to prevent these documents being released, all the lies told about them, all the failures to investigate people featured most prominently, you find that the perpetrators are equally Republican and democratic?

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Anonymous OP 1w

Well I mean yes of course we can unite under the belief that child sex abuse is wrong, thats not really a high threshold. My point is that the solution probably requires understanding the cause of the problem as well as we possibly can. To that end we should find out who the worst and most guilty abusers are

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

No however I do believe that with corruption this deep and entwined in our government it would be ignorant to assume that only one party is involved, especially considering the government has had the document for 7 years now.

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

And I do agree that justice needs to be served. Even if it means destabilizing the entire government. Guilty should be guilty, no exceptions

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Anonymous OP 1w

I was careful not to say that only one party is involved. It’s not a binary thing, both parties can be involved to different extents, not simply involved or not involved

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

But yes I agree with your second point wholeheartedly. The trouble is how we get there!

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

Yes! I do agree that they can be involved to different extents, however until the files are released we won't know. So with in mind, I thing the first step is to put those aside and focus on uniting to get them released. Onelce they are we can adress that.

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Anonymous OP 1w

As to how to get people to unite, start small. Have a conversation, form groups, clubs. The people are most powerful when united

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Anonymous OP 1w

Take a look at the leaders of the civil rights movements like Martin Luther King Jr. and Malom X. They both fought and stood for civil rights however they both had very different personal beliefs.

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Anonymous OP 1w

I’d disagree on that, I think we know quite well which party is more interested in justice for victims of sex crimes like this. For starters the maga party controls the entire federal government right now which is currently trying to put an abrupt end to the investigation despite not obtaining any sort of justice for the victims or having interviewed trump a single time despite his name being featured prominently in the document. He is accused of rape and it was dismissed out of hand.

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

Also the republicans party has a history of protecting sex criminals that isn’t matched on the democratic side, you can see that from their involvement with the Mormon and Catholic Churches.

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

Yes, andI it think it was absolutely wrong that it was dismissed. But until then files are released we will not have enough evidence to convict anyone which is why that needs to be our primary focuse

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Anonymous OP 1w

To bring EVERYONE involved down

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Anonymous OP 1w

I mean they’ve been partially released and trump is featured prominently in them. He’s also a convicted rapist for all intents and purposes which makes me more inclined to think he’d likely be unbothered by pedophilia too. The most that any democrat has going against them is that they were friends with Epstein, which is also true for hundreds of other people who haven’t committed any crimes.

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Anonymous OP 1w

And yes the republicans do control the government now, but Biden was in office and the Democrats controlled it for 4 of the last 7 years since Epstein was arrested. Which is why it's my personal belief that this is deeply embedded in both sides

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

That being said I get your point, releasing the full files should be the focus, not partisan finger pointing. I just want to push back on the “both sides bad” thing a bit because 1. It is one side that is most clearly obstructing justice at this moment and 2. It is the same side that more often defends sex criminals in the first place.

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

But back to your original post, which I thought was a good one, I really don’t know what Americans are supposed to do. I talk to my neighbors, I’m in a lot of clubs, I read and vote…etc. what can I really do to get justice for these victims? No clue

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Anonymous fuuuckyikyak 1w

Don't give up, keep fighting, and most importantly don't let our government divide us in hate so they can get away with this. Because I truly believe that the majority of people are good people, albeit flawed in many different ways and with different beliefs and we are fundamentally stronger united

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