Anonymous #2 17h

Obviously you should vote because it takes like an hour out of your year, but some of you guys act like that 1 single hour out of the nearly 9000 hours in a year is the most important political act.

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Anonymous #2 17h

Working class people who also voted lol

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Anonymous #2 17h

Yall always do this I stg. Nobody is saying voting is the end all be all. It’s important among other things, nothing about this post disagrees with that

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Anonymous #3 17h

Did I say don’t vote?

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Anonymous #1 17h

My point is we spend hours and hours and hours talking about voting for politicians already bought out by lobbyists when we should be talking about organizing a movement of working class people. If you guys are aware of any organizations in your area (not dems!) that are working against ICE or any of the issues we are facing you should think about getting involved with em

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Anonymous #2 17h

My issue with comments like yours is that it puts forward this idea that anytime someone is talking about voting that it’s a waste of time. There’s always someone who has to jump in here and misrepresent calls to vote as if we think voting is the most important thing. Essentially no one here thinks that. It’d be like if we were talking about getting a car running and I brought up alignment and you go “no! We should only talk about brakes and throttle! Talking about alignments are a waste of

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Anonymous #1 17h

Time!” Like obviously we need to talk about brakes and throttle too but it’s a whole system of things that need to work, sometimes you do need to talk about the alignment. People should be allowed to talk about the utility of voting without constantly being attacked and having their argument misrepresented

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Anonymous #1 16h

I’m sorry but if we’re realistic about the minuscule amount of organizing in America compared to the (unfortunately not common enough!) practice of voting then we gotta shift the conversation over to organizing. I get what you’re saying but like look where voting has gotten us. A vote is such an isolated political act and the equation of voting to politics has led so many people to be defeatist about the state of the world rn

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Anonymous #2 16h

I think you’re missing my point. People can discuss multiple ideas and can shift their attention from one idea to another from one conversation to the next. I don’t know where this dynamic came from where we have to choose one or the other. Both concepts are important and have time and energy devoted to them

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Anonymous #1 16h

Because the whole point of the post was just saying “don’t be a moron and abstain when voting could help reduce suffering”. Nothing about that goes against the idea that organizing is crucial for change

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Anonymous #2 16h

you left it out lol

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Anonymous #4 16h

Would you not take a greater chance at survival as opposed to a worse one? Unless you think candidates like trump and Kamala are exactly identical then you know very well which is less harmful, even if they’re both bad

2

Anonymous #1 16h

Yeah I guess but if people think organizing is crucial for change they don’t act like it, at least not in America. Voting is quite obviously not going to fundamentally change anything in our country. Only widespread organizing can do that. So vote! But more importantly, organize!

1

Anonymous #1 16h

I think there is a difference, but also let’s stop pretending that said candidates are out here voting for everyone to go get ice cream lol. People have plenty of valid reasons to be hesitant about voting for some dems. In particular dems who clearly have no spine or genuinely held beliefs

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Anonymous #2 16h

That’s my issue with your rhetoric though, you are putting the onus on the poster to address something you are assuming they don’t know. I don’t expect my mechanic to say “hey first of all let it be known that I do care about your brakes, but with that being said here’s what’s going on with your alignment” I just let them make the point about the alignment and if something else about their comments gives me the indication that they neglected brakes I’ll say something about it then

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Anonymous #1 16h

More succinctly put; don’t assume a discussion about voting is making any greater claims about voting being the end all be all. It usually isn’t and is an important thing nonetheless

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Anonymous #1 15h

Yeah my fault

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Anonymous #4 15h

I mean people have reasons to dislike democrats, to resent and despise them for the reality that they are so spineless and yet the better of the two. But reasons to not vote for them? Absolutely not. It’s just a trolley problem. Nobody gets ice cream and on one track 100 people die and on the other 90 people die. We can sit around and talk about how bad both tracks are all day long but ultimately why would you ever refuse to pull the lever? Do those 10 people that could be saved not matter?

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Anonymous #2 15h

Ur good, its so common that I’ve become irritated about it but its just one of those semantic things that happens all the time, nothing too major 🙏

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Anonymous #1 14h

I mean the difference is that the dems rn are just giving up on so many issues they’ve run on. Remember when Kamala said that she would “follow the law” in regards to laws attacking trans people? Or how about when Clinton went to Michigan to talk down to Muslim voters who wanted an end to the ongoing genocide the US is funding? It’s not dems going “oh we will only have ninety people killed” but rather “oh we lost, maybe we can sacrifice 91 people to appeal to the median voter”

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Anonymous #4 12h

Those things are all horrible and I wholeheartedly agree. They matter as a problem but not in the context of a decision between two fixed options. What you’re doing here is fixating on how horrible it is that people are tied to trolley tracks. Of course that’s terrible, we need systemic change to prevent people being on the tracks in the first place. But voting is the switch and all that can do is choose between two bad outcomes. No matter how bad the blue one is, it is better than the red one

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Anonymous #1 12h

Which is why it’s important to vote for harm reduction and organize outside of voting for systemic change. Both are important

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