Anonymous #1 10w

You’re not wrong but she along with the rest of the party don’t care. They’re confident they will win still due to lesser of two evils & if they lose they can go be a pro Israel lobbyist for big bank

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Anonymous #3 10w

people really do live in opposite realities nowadays

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Anonymous #2 10w

I didn’t realize that supporting Israel means supporting Jews. Are you telling me that Jews are a monolith & that Jews & Israel are the same thing?

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Anonymous #3 10w

like she said, “i have my beliefs about israel. if disavowing israel becomes a litmus test for democrats, i’ll leave before i disavow my beliefs.” and you’re saying “she’s trying to enforce being pro israel as a litmus test for democrats”

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Anonymous #3 10w

it seems like she thinks the party is generally moving towards not accepting people with her views on israel. but you think the party is moving towards not accepting people who don’t share her views on israel

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Anonymous #3 10w

wack

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Anonymous #3 10w

Are you alright???

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Anonymous OP 10w

yeah

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Anonymous #3 10w

its just a bit of reading comprehension

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Anonymous #3 10w

That’s good you were lowkey all of the place. Also the vast majority of dem voters don’t support & want their politicians to cut support to Israel. She along with Dem establishment & leadership do support & want to keep supporting Israel in its genocide & apartheid despite the base feeling the opposite. Here along with other dems are saying Israel comes before the desires of the voters.

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Anonymous OP 10w

no she’s not though she’s saying if the party adopts a platform she disagrees with as a nonnegotiable she’ll leave

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Anonymous #3 10w

that’s just how political parties work

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Anonymous #3 10w

when they change people who don’t like the change leave

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Anonymous #3 10w

You’re over here talking about reading comprehension while repeating the same thing I’m saying back to me as if it’s something different smh. Again are you alright

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Anonymous OP 10w

you said “she wants to force the democratic party to stay pro israel over the objections of the voters”. but that’s not what she said at all she said “if being pro israel becomes unacceptable in the democratic party i’ll leave”

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Anonymous #3 10w

she’s the AG of Michigan not much will change if she leaves

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Anonymous #3 10w

and if you’re right about the will of the voters whether she stays in the party or not she’s not gonna be AG of Michigan much longer anyway

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Anonymous #3 10w

that’s the opposite of democrats banding together to keep israel first

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Anonymous #3 10w

Again are you okay?

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Anonymous OP 10w

“the party needs to choose israel or im out” vs “if israel becomes a litmus test” meaning if being pro Israel is no longer allowed at all. she’s not objecting to the party being more harsh against israel she’s objecting to the party moving in a direction where it doesn’t ALSO ACCEPT her views

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Anonymous #3 10w

essentially she’s saying “if people say that you can’t be in the democratic party if you support israel, then i won’t be” she’s not saying “the whole party has to support israel or i’m out”

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Anonymous #3 10w

I won’t ask if you’re okay again because I think I know what your deal is & that’s okay you just keep being you.

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Anonymous OP 10w

i don’t know what that means but if you think the AG of Michigan thinks she can get the whole party to toe a line by saying she’ll leave you’re nuts

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Anonymous #3 10w

i mean… not accepting genocide is a pretty good litmus test if you ask me tbh.

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where did you get that statistic

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First of all I don’t think that’s true especially right now. Second of all there’s more Christian Zionist then Jewish Zionist in America, 3rd my feelings regarding Israel is separate from my opinion on Jews since they are again 2 separate things. Jews aren’t a monolith like everyone else each individual Jewish person is different. So I don’t assign Israel’s apartheid & genocide to all Jews & it has 0 baring on my opinion of Jews because that’s insane & deeply antisemitic

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Anonymous #1 10w

yeah see that’s a valid response that shows understanding of what’s going on

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Anonymous OP 10w

85-90% of Jews feel a level of personal connection and concern for israel according to pew research polls. some of those identify as zionists some dont. zionism means different things to different people

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I wasn’t incorrect in my statement there are more Christian Zionist in America than Jewish Zionist. Although 3 is correct that Zionism is a purposely vague term that means different things to different people.The connection & support that Jews feel for Israel varies from one Jew to the next because again Jews aren’t a monolith.

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Anonymous OP 10w

Although in this day and age especially with Israel’s current actions the vast majority of people use Zionism to describe support for the nation state of Israel who’s currently an apartheid & committing a genocide. This is also the reason why more & more young Jews are identifying as anti Zionism something the ADL talked about

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Anonymous OP 10w

which is hella confusing for a lot of jews for whom zionism has always meant “i feel connected to what happens in israel and i have strong opinions about it”

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you… just cited an israeli source to tell me how jewish people support israeli zionism… that’s such an obviously egregiously biased source bro lmao. try looking internationally or globally for support for zionism by jewish peoples. you made a claim, you should provide the reliable resource in which you found that data. otherwise, try to avoid being ultracrepidarian.

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Anonymous #3 10w

and doesn’t convey anything really about what said opinions actually are except that they probably don’t involve a future with no more Israel

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It’s honestly very simple American Jews aren’t the ones doing it. Hell not just American Jews but the majority of the worlds Jews aren’t the ones doing this. As for Israeli Jews yeah I guess but even then their actions don’t represent all Jews or even Judaism. Plus to automatically assume Israeli Jew is bad or supports those actions is also wrong. Apartheid & genocide aren’t Jewish traits. The actions of Israel and are supported by plenty of non Jews & opposed by plenty of Jews

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Anonymous #3 10w

Yeah I don’t doubt that confusion especially growing up feeling or being taught one thing. I think it’s understandable for some to feel a sense of confusion regarding their feelings.

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Anonymous #3 10w

I think there’s no issue with Israel existing in the future but I also believe it can’t & shouldn’t exist in its current form which is that of an apartheid country doing a genocide.

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Anonymous OP 10w

it’s wild because i grew up with people who identify as proud zionists and think antizionists are all out to destroy israel and its people at all costs then when i got older i met people who identify as proud antizionists who think zionists are some kind of superevil conspiracy and the zionists i grew up with must have brainwashed me into supporting genocide. when in reality when you get down into the nuts and bolts of it their actual specific opinions are more or less the same

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Anonymous OP 10w

and the confusing thing is a lot of jews would consider that a zionist position

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Anonymous OP 10w

Funny how I didn’t say any of that

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Anonymous OP 10w

I can see that. As an antizionist myself it comes down to this. Do you believe Israel is an apartheid state & do you think Israel is committing a genocide? Then I make my opinions from there. I mean look at Bernie Sanders & Brad Lander both are “Liberal Zionist” who I overall like & support & while I do have my disagreements with them on the issue of Israel & Palestine it’s not big enough for me to fuss over. Yet there’s plenty of people like Hen Mazzig who yeah I think are genuinely bad. So

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Anonymous OP 10w

I take it person to person

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where did you get that number about the IDF because there’s no way that’s true

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I doubt that’s true as far as 70-80% of the worlds Jews having served in the IDF. Also I think the distinction should be made because if not innocent people will get hurt & also because again no group is a monolith including Jew

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Anonymous #3 10w

i don’t even think 70% of jewish israelis have served in the idf

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can you explain what you mean when you say “Zionist”? like when you are talking about Zionists what do you imagine these people believe?

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what do you mean by “as it currently exists”? i’ve never heard that phrase used by a zionist

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Anonymous #3 10w

are you saying they’re not open to deep systemic change? bc that’s not true, many are

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because i have met and talked to them? the guy who assassinated Rabin was a Kahanist (extremist) not a Zionist and even in Israel everyone hates him, they still have murals of Rabin up. plus Rabin’s successor was friendly too

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No my argument is not just say Zionist instead of Jews. Hell there’s plenty of Zionist who aren’t Jewish. One of the biggest examples is President Biden who used to always say he was a Zionist & he helped play a major role in the genocide & is again not Jewish. My thing is you have no clue how any random Jew feels so you shouldn’t conflict the two. It will only in danger them & make things worse

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the basis of zionism is desire for jewish national self-determination, it doesn’t require ethnic separation. israel is very multiethnic and many zionists envision a future similar to what’s described in A Land for All proposal. many don’t of course but many do

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Anonymous #3 10w

sorry kahanist is technically an extremist type of zionism. there are unfortunately kahanists in charge of israel’s government right now but most zionists including in israel hate them. ironically in israel people call them “anti-zionists” because they think their extremism is destroying the country

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i am Jewish and it’s not deeply ingrained in us at all. our culture is 5,000 years old, this conflict is less than 100

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“what does it mean in reality” is exactly the question that makes every zionist different from every other zionist. they all have different ideas of what it means in reality. none of them can go back and undo the past but they have different ideas of how to address it and how to atone for the injustices that have happened

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well this convo is about american jews and what level of support they have for israel so my personal experience is relevant to that

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Anonymous #3 10w

i don’t represent all jews but i have a deep understanding of a lot of different aspects of the american jewish community

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yeah and you can be a zionist and oppose what’s going on, just like you can want a future for any country and still be highly critical of their history and actions and think change is needed

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Anonymous #3 10w

but the majority of American Jews don’t identify as Zionist or anti-Zionist anymore according to the last poll i read

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i’m assuming the jews you meet in your everyday life that you are deciding whether or not to discriminate against are american

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no my argument is your understanding of the entire Jewish community and what it supports or believes in regards to israel is wrong

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if you read the A Land for All proposal you’ll see people have come up with many creative ideas for how both Israelis and Palestinians can have full self determination and freedom of movement in a peaceful future

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yeah article: https://www.jta.org/2026/02/05/united-states/jews-who-support-israel-often-do-not-identify-as-zionists-new-jfna-survey-finds

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Anonymous #3 10w

survey https://www.jewishdatabank.org/databank/search-results/study/1277

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Anonymous #3 10w

older but more robust survey https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-connections-with-and-attitudes-toward-israel/

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Anonymous #3 10w

good analysis of results https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/the-zionism-gap-what-data-really-shows-about-jews-israel-and-zionism-today/

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i mean there’s plenty of arguments about why they do have a claim just like Palestinians do but i would say all those arguments are a bit silly because the facts are there are two nations there now and neither has anywhere else to go and neither is going to go away

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Anonymous #3 10w

and under A Land for All there’s actually no land theft, everyone has access to all the land which is why I like it

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that’s where 88% of jews would disagree with you. first of all, they’d say it’s not an ethnostate and they don’t want it to be, and second of all, they do have a right to national self-determination and equally so do Palestinians. if you disagree with that then you probably disagree with most jews. but that doesn’t mean most jews hate Palestinians or think things are fine as they are

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here’s an ai summary of all the discussions about jewish right to self determination in israel, i picked it bc it draws from a bunch of sources instead of one that might have an angle https://factually.co/fact-checks/society/indigenous-peoples-of-israel-293b57

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Anonymous #3 10w

but again the main thing is there’s two nations in one land and neither are going anywhere and neither are giving up their national identity so

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Anonymous #3 10w

^that’s my personal belief at least

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Anonymous #3 10w

the ai summary is quite interesting tho would recommend

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i told you my belief is they are a nation with their own land and government and there’s no undoing that now

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that’s a scholarly question

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Anonymous #3 10w

the scholarly answer is genetically, culturally, archaeologically, historically, that piece of land has many indigenous peoples, including jews and palestinians

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for one thing, there are Palestinians in elected office in Israel, and the political system is largely secular, though Netanyahu wants to change that. for another, because on both sides they identify as two separate peoples and don’t want to be one state

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i’m sorry but that’s just not true

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of course they didn’t just all show up one day and just decide to kill and expel people and start a war. that’s insanely historically inaccurate

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it’s not factual information. all ethnic groups of jews have shared levantine ancestry. jews who lived in palestine during the islamic caliphates, ottoman empire, and british mandate were not treated the same as Palestinians, they were second class citizens. the jews that make up the primary population of israel are Mizrahi, middle eastern

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i did

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Anonymous #3 10w

https://www.cfr.org/education/learn/timelines/israeli-palestinian-conflict-timeline

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that’s false. it’s about 70% jews, but most of those are Mizrahi

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Anonymous #3 10w

study.com has lots of mistakes lol

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https://www.historytoday.com/archive/feature/herzls-troubled-dream-origins-zionism

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https://theconversation.com/israels-mosaic-of-jewish-ethnic-groups-is-key-to-understanding-the-country-217893

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Anonymous #3 10w

https://people.socsci.tau.ac.il/mu/noah/files/2018/07/Ethnic-origin-and-identity-in-Israel-JEMS-2018.pdf

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that was supposed to be about the like 1850-1930 part of the history

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study.com is a site for people to make flashcards. it’s for studying, not a site of studies

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i did, it says mizrahi jews (who generally don’t identify as arab) face racism AND make up about 40% of Israel’s total population, or the majority of it’s jewish population

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no i send you 2 sources, one 1890-1930, the other 1947-present

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Nakba was mainly 47-48 and its in that source. i was looking for a 40-47 timeline too but unfortunately i have to go do life stuff now so i can’t find everything for you. i hope you do read into things more

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