Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 27w

you dont think you can study athletic ability between groups of people and compare them?

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Anonymous OP 27w

That’s not even remotely related to what I said.

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 27w

then what you said is not even remotely related to what i said

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 27w

what im saying is people make the claim there is no retained advantage and say there are studies to show it while the studies are not quality and dont actually say that

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Anonymous OP 27w

Yes it is. Allow me to explain: Universal negatives, as a general rule, are not falsifiable and therefore not subject to scientific inquiry. You need to reframe your proposition into something that’s actually falsifiable (i.e. “trans women athletes do retain an advantage over cis women”) and then talk about whether the data supports THAT.

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Anonymous OP 27w

is athletics not entirely built around two groups of people (or just two people) with comparable skills competing in said sport to determine who is better?

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 27w

nah. if you had a good quality design that compared trans women athletes and cis women athletes on a number of athletic metrics and found no difference between the distribution of the athletic metrics between the groups, you could conclude that there is no difference in athleticism between the groups aka no advantage is retained

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Anonymous #3 27w

yes, but in sports that require strength and explosiveness more than skill (like archery), there is such a difference in the abilities of men and women that we sex segregate them for the sake of fairness

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Anonymous OP 27w

truthfully it’s hard to take that seriously when there are men with severe advantages over other men in their sports. same with women too. there’s even been cis women disqualified for naturally having more testosterone than other women & that really pissed me off. they were qualifying for the olympics in track, and all their efforts and training were shot down bc their body produces testosterone more than others. they were both still cis women, weren’t taking hormones or cheating, etc.

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Anonymous #3 27w

Something similar happened with a woman in boxing at the last Olympics iirc

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Anonymous OP 27w

that separation puts cis women at a major disadvantage anyways. The NBA gets more views, more money, more opportunities, meanwhile the WNBA (even the names are annoying) gets little to no recognition, money, and definitely no damn respect. these women could absolutely compete against men in a coed league with no problem. those innocuous “disadvantages” are advantageous against MANY teams or opponents. sports are not just a simple binary.

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Anonymous #5 27w

feel free to link some studies if you want dawg. the ones ive read are not good

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Anonymous #3 27w

i agree that the male female categorization leads to problems, and there are sports like mma that take other things like weight into consideration. but for the most part it does make sense to capture the broadest differences in groups. i think for most sports coed leagues would naturally create sex segregated teams because elite men are better athletically than elite women

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Anonymous OP 27w

well you’re talking about sex at first in that comment and then later you go back to talking about gender. they are not interchangeable. we’d need to go back to those basics and get those straightened out before we can continue this discussion, tbh. we can’t have you confusing the two.

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Anonymous OP 27w

can you share the title and principal investigator of those studies you’ve read…

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Comment Deleted

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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41633803/

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this is a meta analysis of 50 studies

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Anonymous OP 26w

Title and Principal Investigator please, as links do not work here.

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Anonymous #3 26w

im only referring to sex here

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Anonymous #3 26w

type the link into google

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Anonymous OP 26w

the amount of time and effort you spent doing that you could’ve just copied the title name and the first author’s name…

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Anonymous #3 26w

Body composition and physical fitness in transgender versus cisgender individuals: a systematic review with meta-analysis Sofia Mendes Sieczkowska et a

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Anonymous OP 26w

this meta-analysis concludes that trans women do not have inherent athletic advantages over cisgender women… also, 52 studies (N=6485) is actually a small sample size compared to other studies with (N>10,000) that also conclude the same thing.

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Anonymous #3 26w

it explicitly says the current evidence is low certainty and heterogenous. also it doesnt even look at metrics of athletic performance. thats my whole point

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the point is the study is not applicable to athletics and has severe methodological flaws

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not sure what this comment is, my post states what my point is: there is no quality research showing no athletic difference. thats my claim, so me providing bad quality research like the meta analysis is proof to my claim

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Comment Deleted

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i mean instead of defending the research youre resorting to name calling and condescension, so it seems like only one of us is up to the challenge of a simple discussion lol

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Comment Deleted

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you seem very mad and upset you should take a break and chill out dawg

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id prefer an analysis of the studies which you seem incapable of doing

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Anonymous #8 26w

idgaf about any sports im just interested in good research

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Anonymous OP 26w

you’re shifting the burden of your claim by doing a double negative. what you’re trying to say is that there IS quality research showing there IS an athletic difference… and you need to provide THOSE studies to support.

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Anonymous OP 26w

OP seems incapable of making progress in this debate on this platform, so i would suggest to you that you call into debate lines, such as Jimmy Snow or Jovan Bradley, with your studies prepared to share.

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Anonymous #3 26w

no thats not what im saying at all. theres not really any quality comparison studies done that point in either direction because the studies are flawed

1

Anonymous OP 26w

i think you may be unaware of some of the studies. if you’d like, you can explore Jovan Bradley’s channel to find a debate to view where these studies are explored.

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Anonymous ireallylikepancakes 26w

how

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Anonymous ireallylikepancakes 26w

In this case, cisgender could be a dummy variable and tested for significance in an athletic performance model. I don’t agree with OP, but it is possible here

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Anonymous #8 26w

you wont find any kind of athletic analysis in any study on this topic btw

1

Anonymous OP 26w

Are you claiming that people haven’t tested how HRT affects athleticism?

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Anonymous ireallylikepancakes 26w

im claiming that there are no good studies that compare trans women athletes and cis women athletes. there are many studies out there and every one ive seen is either incredibly flawed or not designed to answer that question

1