Anonymous #1 4w

I didn’t leave it out, it’s in the quote post

1

Anonymous OP 4w

No? That’s OP’s comment. I specifically said he would need to win against Harris or Newsom. Reading comprehension devil strikes again.

1

Anonymous #3 4w

I didn’t think it needed an explanation that 4 more years of the exact same thing (or worse) is not going to help you organize some movement to vote in a leftist. That’s what accelerationists said about this presidency. Now we need another 4 years?

3

Anonymous #3 4w

You need an argument against accelerationism?? especially when it’s focused on accelerating society into collapse?!

4

Anonymous #4 4w

Not a permanent one

-3

Anonymous #3 4w

that’s a big assumption to pin societal collapse on.

3

Anonymous OP 4w

I don’t want a lifetime of “the most important election of our lives” where the DNC convinces half the country they have to vote for the “Republican but kinda okay with gay people” candidate. We as a nation cannot survive it. Real change is required, and until the DNC is willing to give it we must use the only leverage we have.

-1

Anonymous #4 4w

Well what’s the alternative? 40,000 Americans die yearly from lack of healthcare, under both Republican and Democrat leadership. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are dead under both Biden and Trumps leadership.

0

Anonymous #3 4w

We’re literally not going to survive this term. We’ll be lucky if we can still sell bonds at the end of this presidency. If we can’t, everything collapses

-1

Anonymous #3 4w

fucking organize your community instead of just saying fuck everyone else and voting for unfettered fascism? You know, an ounce of effort? what do you think happens when the inevitable collapse comes and we have NO semblance of organization and collective plan for the next step? The capitalists and fascists have their fucking plans ready, and are absolutely ready for collapse with their fancy nuclear bunkers.

-1

Anonymous #4 4w

accelerating the death of billions is not something to be proud of, and all that indicates is complacency, not resistance.

-1

Anonymous #3 4w

The number of people dead from USAID cuts (some of that aid would have gone to Palestine too) will pale in comparison by the end of this presidency tbh. There’s no use in both-sidesing this just because you apparently deem childhood TB and malaria deaths acceptable

0

Anonymous #4 4w

What the fuck do you think the left is doing? At the end of the day the DNC tells progressives to go fuck themselves then either cancels primaries, or rigs it then brags about the rigging in court. Your options are 40,000 dead Americans every single year for the rest of your life, or to eat the damn frog once and see a prosperous society on the other side.

0

Anonymous OP 4w

Then In that case we are all already dead. Personally I prefer to believe a better world is possible.

2

Anonymous #4 4w

start educating yourself on alternatives, on the techniques employed by this imperial empire for subjecting us to oppression, on the techniques employed by the fascists attempting to further the oppression of the empire, stuff like that. The only way we get through this while minimizing death is together, not by essentially trying to storm head-first into a firing squad.

0

Anonymous #1 4w

we all do, you’re not actually fighting for a better world though, you’re giving up.

0

Anonymous #3 4w

Who the fuck do think I am? accelerationism is not resistance, and I’m not advocating to uphold our institutions if you couldn’t tell, I’m talking about mass organization for forcibly overhauling them, not complacently voting in fascists HOPING for the best.

4

Anonymous OP 4w

When we gain power again USAID will be funded again. But people are going to die no matter what, no matter who wins 2028. Hundreds of thousands of bodies. Trying to say “well you think these deaths are acceptable” is a null point because everyone who has picked a side in this has accepted the reality of death.

-1

Anonymous #4 4w

Which is why my argument is that we need a non AIPAC/ non-closet-Republican candidate from the dems? If the nominee is Newsom, Harris, Shapiro etc. then what I described is an inevitability. Doesn’t matter what we do frankly, they will lose and either we all die or the backlash saves us. My only argument is that there is the possibility of a better outcome if the backlash saves us. If a conservative dem wins, there is only one possibility, that things continue to get worse

6

Anonymous #3 4w

you. do. not. have. to. support. fascists. arguably, you’re a sad excuse for a self-proclaimed leftist if you think accelerating the goals of fascism is the only way to achieve our goals of anti-capitalist revolution.

3

Anonymous #3 4w

“People are going to die no matter what” we’re talking about minimizing that number 😭

4

Anonymous #4 4w

“Let’s not storm head first into a firing squad” followed by “we need mass organization for forcibly overhauling institutions”. Pick one. Do you really think the elites will let you take them down? With no fight?

-1

Anonymous #1 4w

in all honesty, I didn’t even have much to add on that front; my main issue is 3’s obsession with accelerationism. Regarding candidates, I’m near settled that there will be no candidate that meaningfully opposes genocide; our capitalist PACs won’t allow it in the long term (I believe); but if we can achieve minimum 5-10% organization within the population, as well as consistent demonstrations amongst them (disrupting public services for months on end at least), then we could build up to forcibly

1

Anonymous OP 4w

No, you aren’t. If republicans never won an election again and we only got moderate republicans like Newsom for the rest of our lives a million Americans would be dead by 2050 from our healthcare system ALONE. Not including any other failing institutions, and not accounting for the growth in population that will increase the yearly death toll. There is no minimizing that comes from moderates. Progressive or bust. M4A or bust.

-2

Anonymous #4 4w

overhauling our institutions, unless the military is activated against us, which arguably would likely be the trigger of a longer revolution. no matter what, blood has been shed, and will be shed, but ensuring the fascists achieve their goals only maximizes it.

1

Anonymous #4 4w

I don’t understand how you think a forceful takeover of Americas institutions is somehow any less accelerationist

-2

Anonymous #3 4w

Blistering hot take from #3 “Revolution is accelerationist”

14

Anonymous #1 4w

Can you even imagine how many people would die in a revolution? How many friends you would have to bury?

-2

Anonymous #4 4w

I’m so confused about who is who rn. But for the record my argument is that Newsom/Harris/whoever winning is actually more helpful for the fascists than if someone incompetent and lacking ideological motivation like Vance wins.

5

Anonymous #3 4w

well, firstly I never claimed it wasn’t accelerationist, it is indeed a form of accelerationism in the grand scheme, but I’d argue on a lower tier in comparison to actively supporting the fascist coup; secondly, at the end of the day there will have to be some form of legally-treason effort by the population in order to overhaul this system we live under, modern governments were designed to prevent meaningful reformation away from capitalism.

2

Anonymous #4 4w

A takeover of the capitalist imperial empire is the only way to ensure the least bloodshed long-term, otherwise even if we successfully transition other nations out of capitalism, this nation will still utilize its military to destabilize those nations, as we always have. Supporting the most violently radicalized capitalists, meaning fascists, though? I’m sorry but come on, you genuinely can’t see the error in that logic?

6

Anonymous #3 4w

Yes and? All meaningful change in human society ever has depended on violence. The reason we are here today in a liberal democratic society is because people were willing to die for that. All of Western/ Central Europe rose up roughly every 20-25 years for over a century in Liberal revolutions against absolute monarchy, and got slaughtered in the thousands over and over. There was a time when it seemed like the divine right of kings would never end. Well that’s where we’re at with capitalism.

5

Anonymous #3 4w

Wait, so you’re okay with voting in fascists to usher in societal collapse, but you’re not okay with attempted revolution? get the fuck out of here you fucking infiltrator; leftist my ass.

12

Anonymous #4 4w

Literally has to be a fed 😭

7

Anonymous #1 4w

Is your argument just cowardice then? I am alive as a consequence of my ancestors surviving literally hundreds of years of imperialism, conquest and genocide. Why should I sit back and be content with being oppressed, when millions of brave people around the world have died for freedom, and when millions more are yet to do so. A better world is possible. Socialism will win.

5

Anonymous OP 4w

like what the actual fuck is this stupidity on our feeds. Dude is so conflicted with liking fascism but thinking they’re a leftist

5

Anonymous #1 4w

yes it will. Capitalism will fall, the fascists will lose AGAIN, and equity will prosper. and any of you fed scumbags investigating ppl on this app for the NSPM7, go fuck yourselves.

-1

Anonymous #4 4w

MAGA communism maybe

4

Anonymous #4 4w

Ts is crazy. I’m 11. I’m not even ardently accelerationist. 3 hopped in here and started defending a position way more extreme than my own I’m so confused.

0

Anonymous OP 4w

oh fuck, you might be right tbh.

3

Yes that’s how a revolution works. You massively overestimate how many people would actually do anything about it though. 30% of the country is the total GOP membership. You think even a quarter would be motivated AND capable of fighting? The reality is that revolutions and civil wars are decided by deceptively small slices of the population. Most people just pick a side further down the line or as convenient.

1

see how you’re resorting to defending fascism? the only one assuming mass causalities is you, and it’s quite telling.

3

Anonymous #4 4w

That’s not because I’m an accelerationist, that’s because I’m a realist.

-1

Anonymous #4 4w

Damn 3 blocked me this is so confusing

1

Anonymous #3 4w

and you’re ignoring how prevalent conditioning is among fascist movements, as well as how they’re predicated on loyalty through fear. Fascism is quite easy to dismantle once you can get through to individual people, the issue is our modern society is quite good at keeping us divided and alone. Hence why we need to start organizing.

5

Anonymous #1 4w

No tf I didn’t?

0

Anonymous #1 4w

I thought they did but I think they just deleted a comment or something

7

Anonymous #3 4w

you’re an accelerationist and a fascist dude, that’s it. guess who else tried to justify themselves with the “I’m a realist” line? Bigots, specifically white supremacists. you’re not a leftist, and you’re terrible at pretending to be one.

6

Anonymous #1 4w

I think they deleted the comment, I thought the same for a sec until I scrolled to the top!

8

Anonymous #4 4w

Ignoring the division and seperation of modern society, it’s hard to do anything with an individual when we are talking about a demographic of 80 million people. You can convince a fascist to not be a fascist in the time the two of you could have brunch, but you can’t have brunch all of a sudden with 80 million people.

1

Anonymous #1 4w

Vance has financial motivation. He is the bought and paid for patsy of the NRX movement. You want accelerationism? Sure. Good luck dealing with the plutocrats who will snap up resources from the people while the chaos ensues. It happened in slow-motion as the Soviet Union crumbled, it will happen far faster as the US shatters.

2

Anonymous full.metal.everything. 4w

Literally just consequentialism. A Newsom or Harris victory does nothing except ensure someone 10x worse than Trump wins in 2032. Either the dem nominee is someone mildly decent or literally the best hope for this country is that Vance is incompetent and does whatever the minimum reasonable damage he might do is. If a conservative in the nominee then the *good* outcome is a few million people die. People do not realize how utterly fucked up our situation is, and so are interpreting trying to be

-2

Anonymous #1 4w

strategic between a set of all terrible outcomes as endorsing any of those outcomes

-2

Anonymous #3 4w

who the fuck said all 80m people need to change at once? why are you trying to insist that it’s an “all or nothing”, when these movements and rebellions commonly take decades… the fact that you’re willing to condemn the lives of potentially billions to usher in a fascist regime so they’ll collapse society on the HOPE that the survivors will recognize the issues of fascism, is fucking sociopathic.

3

Anonymous #4 4w

You are horrible at arguing in good faith. You still haven’t answered my question about if you think there are any other ways to make. A fascist not a fascist anymore, instead you’re just calling me names and hoping it’ll win you the argument.

0

Anonymous #3 4w

just resorting to projection and ad hom now huh, ran out of other tactics?

4

Anonymous full.metal.everything. 4w

I mean this is literally already happening and will happen regardless of who wins 2028 or 2032. The US’ decline is likely terminal at this point.

1

Anonymous #4 4w

The fact that you think billions would die is outrageous. The Nazis were hellbent on killing as many non aryans as they could and WW2 didn’t even break 100M. 3% of the world’s population.

-1

Anonymous #3 4w

i’m calling you by what you advocate for, fascism. did it upset you?

1

Anonymous #4 4w

Just resorting to projection and ad hom now huh?

0

Anonymous #3 4w

The Nazis didn’t cause outright societal collapse you fucking imbecile, the issue is we are currently toeing the line on global collapse already and you’re advocating for this stupidity.

1

Anonymous #3 4w

The Nazis didn’t cause climate change to kill all life on Earth. The wars that climate change will cause will kill hundreds of millions, and large parts of the world, holding hundreds of millions of people become uninhabitable.

6

Anonymous #4 4w

they collapsed the society contract and stability around the world, yeah, but I’m talking about widespread global societal collapse.

1

Anonymous #3 4w

you know the mature thing to do when you’re wrong is to acknowledge it and learn from it, not insist on retaining those views….

6

Anonymous #4 4w

You’re acting like I called for the fucking nukes to drop or something. The MAGAts won’t cause a global societal collapse, a destruction of the dollar? Probably. A global war that we lose ending the American empire? Maybe. All of those things humans have lived through, dozens of times.

-2

Anonymous #1 4w

If you really think Curtis Yarvin and Thiel's wet dream prez is the best option you are not on Earth. Yes, the US system is headed to collapse. But the way it comes apart will determine what it becomes after. Acclerationism is these billionaire freak's dream. They will fare better than anyone else, and may come out even more powerful. You are a mark.

1

Anonymous #3 4w

hey so a global war is likely going to involve nukes btw

7

Anonymous #3 4w

you are literally advocating for the people who are hoping to use nukes, AND literally advocate for collapse to happen on some delusional hope that society will be more prosperous after; shut the fuck up If I didn’t know any better, I’d say you were one of those fucking “population reduction” scumbags.

6

Anonymous OP 4w

We’ve been at war for basically our entire lifetime, and no nukes have dropped in that time. We’re currently in what is effectively a global war with how dead set we are to bring China into the conflict and we haven’t even tested the missile warning systems. The nukes won’t drop, and even if they did there would be no society left to piece together.

-2

Anonymous #3 4w

you’re a fucking imbecile if you can’t recognize how dangerously close we are to global collapse. We have 60 years left of growing crops on the surface, estimated to surpass 2.0C warming by 2100, estimated over 6ft sea level rise if I remember correctly, displacement of billions of people over the next century, exponentially rising food insecurity, to the point where the UK already includes it as a national security threat, and so much worse Your beliefs are fucking dangerous

7

Anonymous #3 4w

You’re the guy in the “nothing ever happens” meme, aren’t you?

6

Anonymous #4 4w

Prove that they are hoping to use nukes. You can’t. They are dumb, and they are evil, but they aren’t complete and total morons, and more importantly neither are the ones who keep the launch codes. And nowhere did I ask for a collapse (if anything your violent upheaval of our systems would cause that). Simply that a short termed fascist regime would be better in the long term than a constantly flip flop between fascism and do nothing democrats for the rest of our lives.

0

Anonymous #4 4w

And what the fuck is Newsom going to do to stop that?

0

Anonymous #3 4w

I specifically was talking my about global societal collapse, in which you responded to “swallow the frog” You’re not slick. I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR DEMOCRATS YOU FUCKING IMBECILE.

4

Anonymous #3 4w

fucking stupid ass fascists would rather condemn us all than go the fuck to therapy.

5

Anonymous full.metal.everything. 4w

I think he is the best option if the choice is him (who is unlikely to achieve even 10% of what they would want him to do) or a spineless Dem who will guarantee that the next billionaires’ puppet will do all of it. He is not my preferred candidate overall. I think we have *a chance* of surviving Vance. I do not think it is possible that this country survives whoever gets elected in 2032 if 2028-2032 is another failed neoliberal presidency.

-2

Anonymous #4 4w

Ong “just swallow the fact some of your family members will be deported so we can see if my political theory works”

6

Anonymous #4 4w

THATS LITERALLY WHAT THE ORIGINAL FUCKING ARGUMENT WAS ABOUT YOU DUMBASS. IT WAS ABOUT THE GOD DAMN DEMOCRATS. ME AND 1 COMPLAINED ABOUT THEM AND YOU STARTED FUCKING WHITE KNIGHTING.

-1

Anonymous #4 4w

ALL OF US WERE ARGUING ABOUT VANCE VS NEWSOM AND YOU COME IN HERE WITH “BILLIONS WILL DIE” and then wanted to call ME the population reduction freak. GTFO. Read the fucking post before you comment on it and defend the neolibs. Better yet go read some fucking theory.

4

Anonymous #1 4w

Thank you for providing evidence to support my "you are a mark" comment. You really didn't have to do that.

1

Anonymous #1 4w

It would be painfully ironic if you or someone you cared about ended up being a casualty of the Vance administration that you think is the better option. But I guess it’s fine as long as your political ends are achieved right?

9

Anonymous #3 4w

you literally came in here and ONLY talked about accelerationism, you stupid fuck. I don’t give a fuck about your other conversation that I was never a part of. YOU tried to defend accelerationism, YOU tried to advocate in favor of fascists gaining power, YOU attempted to imply that societal collapse would result in a more prosperous society, and YOU are a fucking piece of shit. good fucking day, go huff paint or whatever the fuck you do.

0

Anonymous #3 4w

“Go read some theory” you need to be studied in a lab 😭😭😭

0

Anonymous full.metal.everything. 4w

So between certain death of all life on earth and a small chance at survival, otherwise the same you’d prefer certain death? That’s the situation.

0

Anonymous #4 4w

the best part, not once have I defend the institution nor neoliberalism. Ngl OP I think you hit the nail on the head w the maga communism comment.

2

Anonymous #4 4w

defended*

5

Anonymous OP 4w

Please tell me what author has written anything that supports what you’re arguing rn, and how did that work out in reality?

4

Anonymous OP 4w

wanna know the best part, I’m a fucking communist and this mfer thinks he’s doing something bringing up theory give me a fucking break

5

Anonymous #4 4w

Now I’m genuinely curious what you’d do in a Vance vs Newsom election? Am I gonna see you on the news for trying to overthrow the global hegemony? Will you accept that you side with the neolibs and vote for Newsom? Would you accept that I’m right and vote for Vance? Or would you just not vote and continue to blame everyone else for all the worlds problems on yikyak?

-1

Anonymous #3 4w

not voting is an option you dumb fuck, no wonder why you refuse to entertain the idea of organizing your community, you’re still deluded into believing that we both need to, and are able to, vote our way out of this. go ahead and find a time in history where fascism was successfully defeated SOLELY by voting the fascist party out

0

Anonymous #4 4w

Did you even read my comment because I talked about not voting and you are severely proving what I said about it to be correct

0

Anonymous #4 4w

Also Orban, like last fucking week. I know you don’t read my comments but do you at least read the news?

-1

Anonymous #3 4w

Do you think just because you claim something, it must be so? ONCE AGAIN, it makes sense why you refuse to entertain the idea of organization. Direct action is a foreign concept to you, isn’t it? Hence why you think not voting is just “blaming everyone else”, because you can’t comprehend actually taking action for something you stand for Aside from, you know, advocating for societal collapse ;)

1

Anonymous #4 4w

What direct action have you taken?

0

Anonymous #3 4w

Magyar was part of Fidesz just 5 years ago, and Tisza is still considered center to center-right. By your logic, isn’t he Newsom? Wouldn’t Orbán just come back?

2

Anonymous #3 4w

You mean Hungary, where the opposition leader who won was leading mass protests?

1

Anonymous OP 4w

this part too, if anything it’s just a return of global status quo

1

Anonymous #3 4w

Remember how we brought up ad hom? My direct action is irrelevant to my point, and personally I’d rather not dox myself on an account linked to my school email. Why did you try redirecting the conversation?

1

Anonymous #4 4w

You said we should take direct action instead so I asked what kind of direct action you’ve taken? How is that redirecting?

1

Anonymous #3 4w

because we’ve already vaguely discussed what I mean by direct action, but to reiterate again: organize your community. please excuse me if I don’t exactly feel comfortable discussing real nitty gritty methods on here while the FBI compiles a list of anyone they deem a domestic terrorist via political dissidence.

0

Anonymous #3 4w

No response? Isn’t Fidesz just going to win next time?

1