Anonymous #3 16h

That does nothing to change underlying class dynamics and racial dynamics. The last 80 years has proven that wins for social liberalism mean nothing because at any time, fascists can come into power and set us back decades and wreak violence and havoc on us all.

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Okay. So besides voting and other forms of civil engagement, what would you suggest we do?

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Anonymous #3 16h

Also does nothing to address structural issues that produce global climate change and colonialism.

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

It also doesn’t help that the system was created by a bunch of slavers and rich ghouls (who were also slavers) to protect their interests

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Are you serious? You do realize that progressives are the ones trying to rein in corporations, right? What’s your solution then? Like yeah the system is fucked, we’re trying our best to improve things, but what are you going to do? Burn it all down tomorrow? I hate this kind of talk because I hear it all the time from people who do not vote or do anything even fractionally useful in terms of civil engagement

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Anonymous #3 16h

Participate in mutual aid, community pool funded and lead programs, promote self-reliance and sustainability, promote community education and personal skills courses. Decouple ourselves in the ways that we can so that when things degrade we can support ourselves and each other and then when the time comes, do what we must to create the new society we want and save ourselves and the planet.

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Anonymous #3 16h

Read my other comment. The key to the future is investing all we can in each other.

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

I do most of those things already… I don’t think any of that will bring about the change you’re talking about on a timescale that will affect us. Elections do affect us and our immediate reality. If you want to trace back why our politics today are so fucked, it starts with money in politics, and that’s what the progressives are focused on getting rid of. Saying “politics bad so don’t participate” is just bad advice.

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Anonymous #3 16h

Also, unionize and arm yourselves

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Anonymous #3 16h

There is no reasoning with people who think we are subhuman and there is no point in appeasing them or their wills. Our government does not work for us and never will.

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Anonymous #3 16h

It quite literally was not created to. It was create to manage us and facilitate extraction and protect property

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Also let’s be objective here. In any large scale society, fascism is always possible. There is no “guarding” against it as long as money is valuable, because you can incentivize key factions to keep you in power through bribery and corruption. Maintaining democracy requires vigilance instead of complacency, which is what happened in 2016 and 2024.

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

It’s so easy to say shit like this and take the advances in our quality of life for granted. The food you eat, the technology you enjoy, the house you live in are all by and large products of a society managed by government. If you have a better idea on how to live with a higher quality of life, by all means explain it to me. But pretending that government has only ever been a bad thing is stupid

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Anonymous #3 16h

Fascism is a specific set of ideologies and tropes not “big powerful government”. The most effective way to prevent fascism is to 1) remove the economic structures which produce it (economic inequality, inadequate education, etc) and punish or purge people that try to create race wars, etc.

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Anonymous #3 16h

I feel like a lot of what’s happened recently goes beyond complacency and into complicity. The democrats will not save us, nor do I even think they want to.

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Anonymous #2 16h

Yeah, they work for many of the same people as republicans

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Also for all of these donations and helping each other out; a lot of working people do not have time for this. Raising minimum wage, building social safety nets etc. requires representatives willing to fight for our interests legislatively. It would have made more sense if you advocated participation in municipal and state government, but apparently not

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Anonymous #3 16h

And these social safety nets are integral to providing the foundation for free time and disposable income that people need to consistently support their communities

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Anonymous #3 16h

What is there to enjoy when we abuse, kill and starve people and the planet to have our luxuries? There are mountains of dead bodies under our feet to support the lives that were constructed for us to be just comfortable enough to never want to challenge those who control society.

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Well obviously, fascism is not just big government. But progress can always be torn down, just like we’re seeing today. I support the reforms you mentioned but that once again is something that will be achieved legislatively and completely defeats the point of your post.

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Anonymous #3 16h

That’s why I think we need armed unions.

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Okay, so are you constantly miserable? Are you planning to kill yourself? What is the solution to this? Should no one be living a good life because our lives are intrinsically tied to capitalism? This is truly the most stupid comment I’ve read in this thread thus far. You can be aware and critical of social issues without putting the onus for them on everyone who just happens to be alive in that society. No one was born here of their own will.

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Okay so getting back to unions: why aren’t there more of them? I’ll give you a hint, it’s related to unregulated corporate power. Which is once again something no one is going to change by not participating in elections.

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Anonymous #2 16h

A lot of them don’t. That’s the establishment, and they need to be sacked. Which again… requires participating in elections

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Anonymous #3 16h

I think the biggest injustice to those who have died for us to live comfortably is to sit down and not fight for ourselves or for them. I don’t think we should be miserable. I think we should be honest. There is plenty to enjoy on earth that doesn’t require us to kill each other. I think any rational person would be depressed at the sight of the world. What I cherish most personally is hope. I hope the contradictions of our society collide and that instead of a fall it is a rebirth.

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Okay so you contradicted yourself. Because yes we should enjoy what we have and fight for better, for ourselves and everyone else. Yes, I personally am really fucking depressed witnessing the world right now, but it’s motivating me even more to be grateful for what I have and vote, protest, organize, etc. This year has been a hellscape and if even half of the people sharing your sentiment regarding elections could take similar actions as me, we would be in a very, very different place right now

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Anonymous #3 16h

Yes, a multi front war has been waged on unions by liberals and conservatives for many decades. On one hand they let corporations run amuck and allow them to punish workers for trying to unionize, on the other they have failed to teach people their importance, and many don’t believe they are necessary because they have been convinced they are harmful or are comfortable enough to not feel the need to ask for more

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Yes. Now which people are currently advocating for unions and workers?

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Anonymous #3 16h

I’m not sure how I contradicted myself

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

> “What is there to enjoy when we abuse, kill and starve people and the planet to have our luxuries?” (As if it isn’t a select few groups responsible for massive atrocities by the way) > “I don’t think we should be miserable”

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Anonymous #3 16h

Nobody, really. A lot of democrats give face for unions, especially during election season, but there hasn’t been substantial support for them since a lot of the old guard retired in the 80s

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Okay well the answer is the DSA, and the only way the changes you’re talking about are going to happen is if we elect people who provide the socioeconomic support for people to start getting involved in their unions

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Anonymous #3 16h

I was making a rhetorical statement which didn’t say we must be miserable. I said there is plenty to enjoy that doesn’t involve exploitation!

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Living in a capitalist society means you’re exploiting someone or something by virtually everything you do or own. Your statements really aren’t consistent

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Anonymous #3 16h

The only way the changes we want to see will come from arming ourselves and breaking laws to make them happen.

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Anonymous #3 16h

Yes, we live in our society, and there is exploitation everywhere. I think you know exactly what I mean and just want a gotcha moment lol

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Okay, good luck with that, since I’m assuming you practice what you preach

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

It really isn’t lmao. Do explain to me what we can enjoy without some form of exploitation

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Anonymous #3 16h

And again there is plenty to enjoy that doesn’t involve exploitation. Go outside, be with your family and community, meditate or pray, explore nature. Technically if you do anything other than breathe air in our society it involves some sort of exploitation. If you want to catch me on a technicality like that, sure, be a pedant. But you know what I mean and I think this conversation has ceased being productive.

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Anonymous #3 16h

I mean that’s why we must support each other and then when the time comes we do what we must to create the society we want.

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

Sure, I personally do all of those things, but let’s be clear. This conversation wasn’t going to be productive, unless you somehow changed your mind, given the content of your post. Don’t wax poetic about how everything is product of exploitation and abuse and then accuse someone of being a pedant when they question you about it. It’s very easy to say all of these things, much harder to do things about it. I’m confident in the actions I’m taking to build a better future, let’s hope you are too

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Anonymous #3 16h

Agreed. We were never going to convince each other of anything. Anyone that comes on this platform with that goal is naive and will be disappointed. Im steadfast and I know that when the time comes, we will be ready.

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Anonymous .gaia. 16h

The majority of the actions I personally take are within the bounds of law, but hey vandalizing a Flock camera here or there never hurt anybody. I’d probably get shot trying to do what I want to do about the concentration camps though. So I’m being realistic. It’s hard to network and organize. I’m assuming you’re already part of something like Indivisible or another national action group?

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Anonymous #3 16h

I’m not discussing things of that nature on here

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