Anonymous #3 2w

Not how communism works, nobody owns anything since technically speaking everything belongs to the state. The state can do with these materials whatever it deems necessary, not just individuals. Unless you’re referring to land distribution, which again is based off the states decision not the individuals.

1

Anonymous #3 2w

Just proves you never bothered actually read into communism

14

Anonymous OP 2w

Yeah, I mean if all you go off of is Cold War attitudes and Propaganda, you’re not gonna get a good picture lol. Coming from someone who doesn’t like communism, you need to do actual research and not just say “It’s for lazy poor people”.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

I mean it sounds like you’re kinda going based off Cold War attitudes and propos, the concept of the “state” is something to be overhauled and demolished in communism. You’re mistaking collective ownership of the means of production with nationalization; communism isn’t possibly in the world’s current form, so you wouldn’t see the “state” taking peoples property and owning everything (if anything, that sounds more closer to the transitory state between capitalism and communism, but still that

1

Anonymous #2 2w

That isn’t required.) private ownership isn’t outlawed or some shit like many people falsely assume, however private ownership over *the means of production*, such as factories, farms, power plants, etc, is indeed outlawed and instead owned by all citizens, operated collectively for the benefit of everyone rather than an individuals financial gain. TLDR; you’re wrong about the “no one owns anything under communism”, that’s propaganda meant to dilute the msg

1

Anonymous #4 2w

But if everything is owned by the state then technically no one owns anything, they are just being permitted to use the redistributed land or factories. You say that communism cannot exist in the world’s current form. Which makes me think you are referring to Marx and the final stage of Communism being Utopia. In which we would live in a society where there is no form of capital and people work together towards the benefit of society and spend the rest of their time in leisure.

1

Anonymous #4 2w

Also, just saying “the state” is not really a propaganda term. Many other ideologies are spoken of in terms of state, like Fascism, Democracy, and Imperialism.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

But communism specifically does not. You’re ignoring a fundamental facet of communist theory, that in order for communism to be achieved then the existing structure of governments and the state must be demolished. You’re comparing apples and oranges, capitalism-based system and their representations, to the theorized attempt at establishing communism in a *post-capitalist world* And *again*, you’re wrong in assuming that no one is allowed to own anything. People can own things lmfao,

1

Anonymous #2 2w

You just can’t own the factories that society needs to provide for its citizens. And yes, when I reference communism I reference the final goal (which is what communism was defined as according to Marx AND Engels (don’t forget Engels, he did all the heavy lifting); a state-less, money-less world in which we’ve deconstructed all hierarchies. It sounds like you’re more so referring to the transition period between capitalism and communism, in which there are a plethora of theories and ideas of

6

Anonymous #4 2w

I’m not sure if you understand what I’m talking about. I don’t mean things like clothes or small items, even houses or vehicles. In our world, in our history. What happened in Eastern Europe, Russia, China, and other places was a series of large government reforms, puppet governments, police forces, and military expansion. Things like land redistribution did occur, which was a big part of what the communist wanted which was land for agriculture like in Eastern Europe.

1

Anonymous #4 2w

Well I base my opinions of reality and not theory, history > thought. Both are needed to comprehend these events and ideologies but you can’t really make opinions without having a reference otherwise it’s just speculation.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

You said *everything* lol, but I outlined the difference earlier, that under communism the means of production would be collectively owned: being factories, farms, mines, railroads, power plants, etc. That’s necessary to prevent exploitation of society at large by any private owners of the means of production, like we currently see under capitalism.

0

Anonymous #2 2w

But your entire argument is speculation based on your fears of an ideology you do not comprehend?

0

Anonymous #4 2w

You keep saying “collectively”, you do realize the ones that collectivized Eastern Europe were members of the government right? The peasants didn’t get a say in what land they would get, they just got it. In some cases the peasants actually had more land before the land reforms and were hurt by them. (This is especially true in the areas that were formerly under Nazi occupation since these areas were broken up more, not saying peasants benefitted under Nazi’s they had land before the regimes)

1

Anonymous #4 2w

I haven’t said once I’m afraid of communism, but I think it has a lot of issues. Again, I base my opinions off of history and reality, not theory.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

You’re basing your opinion off of, unironically, Cold War propaganda released by the US state department; and it’s funny because you tried coming after someone else for that lol. If you knew much about communism, you’d understand that the few attempts throughout history were met with interference by the US military, we’ve overthrown entire governments to prevent the election of leftist candidates. Again, for the last time, communism calls for a *different social structure without

1

Anonymous #2 2w

The hierarchies that currently exist today*. I did not say there wouldn’t be a governing body; there would be, likely consisting of everyday citizens. Again you’re comparing apples to oranges, and it shouldn’t be this difficult for you to understand that (unless you don’t want to actually learn about communism, and you only want to demonize it?🧐) The only attempts at communism have been during the transitionary state, no attempts made it past that transition (sometimes referred to as

0

Anonymous #4 2w

I’m actually getting this information from two books, Anne Applebaums “Iron Curtain” And Timothy Garton Ash’s “Homelands”. Neither of these books are propaganda and both have detailed sources many of which come from recently made public Moscow archives. I might not know everything about the ideology of communism but the history of it I’m decently adversed in. You can’t just keep calling it “propaganda” every time I say something. Like you know the KGB, Stasi, and the purges happened right?

1

Anonymous #4 2w

You are literally arguing an ideology and not reality, how can I, in good conscience, with the knowledge of the historical narrative, agree with theory rather than physical truth.

1

Anonymous #4 2w

That’s not a fair argument because you are saying because I’m not looking at it from an ideological perspective I’m wrong. I look at reality and history not just what I wish happened.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Dude. You’re reading *entirely* about Stalinism and Marxist-Leninism (prior to Stalin taking control). Those are NOT representative of the entire cloud of communist theory, those are just two single branches, out of potentially hundreds throughout history. This is what I mean. You literally are parroting propoganda because you *don’t know better*. The US wants you to think that Stalinism is representative of *communsim* in its entirety when it’s not, so you see the issue now?

0

Anonymous #2 2w

Because I’m arguing from the fundamental reality that you’re claiming to discuss, when in actuality you’re discussing Stalinism, a very specific and niche branch of communism that doesn’t even reflect the majority of communism or the history of communism. That’s why I say you’re falling for US propo

0

Anonymous #4 2w

History isn’t propaganda, did you even read my comment or bother to google the two books I said I’ve read? Again, you keep arguing in theory. I’ll ask you a question, What was the Communists goal in Eastern Europe and how did they achieve these goals? Did they achieve them? If they did or didn’t, explain why?

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Again, I’m not here to talking about *STALINISM*, I’m talking about actual communist theory; where Lenin derived his ideas that Stalin twisted and perverted. If you wanted to jerk off and fight about the USSR, go find someone who gives a fuck to defend the USSR lmao, I’m a communist not a Stalinist (or even a Leninist, and if you still can’t understand the difference, let me know and I’ll walk you through it again). You wanted to talk communism, which is NEAR ENTIRELY THEORY you arrogant twat

0

Anonymous #2 2w

It hasn’t been achieved; only attempted sparsely, and out of those attempts, they’ve all been met with capitalist imperialism as a response. And I didn’t say history itself was, otherwise I’d be saying some bullshit like “the USSR never killed anyone” (which is obviously bullshit). I stated that what was propoganda was claiming that the USSR represented the entirety of communist thought, and I feel like you understand that clearly but you don’t want to acknowledge it for some reason.

0

Anonymous #4 2w

Literally your entire argument has just been saying everything I say is propaganda while whatever you say is gospel. Talking in theory is like speaking in tongues, it makes literally no sense. Also you pretty much are defending the USSR by acting as if they were separate from your ideology, doesn’t make it any better lol. But yeah, guess I’m just not speaking truth even though I have two references (and could easily find more) about how communism has not worked historically.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

You realize your same argument works for capitalism, right? If you really want to get into the USSR, deaths under a nation are not directly attributed to economic system right? Otherwise we’d be attributing millions of deaths each year to capitalism (food insecurity, lack of access to healthcare, region instability, etc); or, do we consider the events taking place as more likely a contributing factor, like idk the global economic sanctions from capitalist nations, two world wars followed by the

1

Anonymous #4 2w

Notice how I never once defended capitalism or imperialism? Crazy how you continue to assume everything about me just because I don’t agree with you. I base my opinions off of historical fact and what has actually occurred not what I wish happened lol.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Cold war, regime change during this (in which ideology majorly changed), etc etc. Maybe, just maybe, you don’t know as much about communism as you thought, and have been led to believe that a *single nation* represents the entirety of communism, both in theory and throughout history. Sure, you’re absolutely right ;)

1

Anonymous #4 2w

I already said I don’t know everything about communism. But you haven’t seemed to admit you don’t know as much about history as you thought. I am right, because the evidence of the destruction, ethnic cleansing, and violence under communism did happen and backs up everything I’ve said. You live in a fantasy world where everything I say is propaganda and lies and you are always right. I can’t argue with you, because you have already reached your conclusion, that I’m wrong before I’ve spoken.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

I didn’t say you did, however what is communism a response to? (Hence why capitalism is discussed when discussing communism); and imperialism, take a look at the history you claim to know, you’re trying to solely discuss communism as if those attempts existed within a vacuum. Hence the references to some influencing forces

1

Anonymous #4 2w

What do you mean? You literally said I don’t know what communism is twice lol. You then tried to say that I’m speaking in ideology and cited the deaths under capitalism and imperialism. Though, I never once defended these ideologies either. I don’t discuss just theory because I weigh my opinions based off historical reality and the historical narrative which says that both of these ideologies had done harm. But one has persisted whilst the other has not succeeded.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Seriously? We can turn to look at the holocaust, which happened under capitalism, as a rebuttal of your ill-intentioned attempts to disparage communism for something that is known far and wide. You can claim whatever you’d like, but this anti intellectualism is a plague. You claim to discuss history yet ignore all historical factors and resort to “no they were communists so that’s the reason”. This is what I mean. When it’s communism, it’s the fault of communism, but when it occurs under

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Solely because one persists, does it mean it’s good? Slavery persisted for quite some time, didn’t go away (mostly) until quite recently. You see the point I’m making, right? I’d compare the persistence of capitalism to a parasite; but nonetheless I don’t think the persistence of the global sociopolitical system should be the determining factor of whether it’s beneficial, good, or even just neutral. Yes, because if you think the USSR’s attempt at communism is representative of communism in

1

Anonymous #4 2w

Seriously? This coming from the one who throughout this entire debate has parroted “U.S. propaganda” and spoken in tongues and nonsense claiming it as theory with no backing, and making an attempt to separate action from ideology as if that would change anything. This is ludicrous. The only one who is ignoring history here is you, but I’ll bite. The holocaust occurred under the major capitalists system but through the ideology of Fascism which mind you was anti-capitalist, anti-communist.

1

Anonymous #4 2w

It’s entirely, then you’re fatefully wrong. Look up a list of communist based ideologies, there’s a section of Leninist based ideologies which would be closest to what you’re describing (not limited to though), however there’s a plethora of other communist branches and ideologies as well. Ex: not all communism is derived from Marx and Engels, there’s non-Marxist communism as well. That’s the entire point I was trying to make. You’re casting off and demonizing communism based on a single

1

Anonymous #4 2w

You are just using logical fallacies and until you actually give me some solid evidence of the good communism has done with sources I do not think this debate can continue. I mean real, provable, benefits that occurred under communism not just ideology. That’s not fair to argue thoughts with reality because I can’t argue with something that doesn’t exist.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Dickhead, I’m an actual communist explaining it to you. I don’t give a fuck whether you hold onto the USSR for the rest of your life, it’s the exact thing the US state department wants you to do. If you’d rather be ignorant, go ahead. “You can lead a horse to water, but can’t force it to drink” The USSR was an authoritarian branch of communist theory, specifically under Stalin. Most communists don’t subscribe to that, if you’re curious about other attempts at transitioning look into south

1

Anonymous #4 2w

So do you live in a communist country or are actively part of a communist party? Because as far as I’m aware, the only other large communist country is china, which is also authoritarian so I really don’t know where you’re coming from.

1

Anonymous #4 2w

That’s exactly what I said, hey btw can you give me one communist country where I can criticize the government without being monitored by the secret police lol.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

I’m an American dude. And no, china isn’t communist lmfao, despite their claims to be. I’d call them state-ran capitalism. They’re just a threat to the US so we’ve continued the cold-war era rhetoric to maintain not only that communism is bad (fucking capitalism man), but also that china is an enemy.

0

Anonymous #4 2w

“No true Scotsman” lol

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Dude, you’re monitored *here* by the NSA and CIA for critiquing our government, its officials, and allies. You keep saying this shit, but everything you’ve said has been things that WE ARE GUILTY OF. Hell, the NSA has a digital map of the entire internet where all connections are mapped out and logged, so they can track connections between individuals and their devices; it’s rumored that they can type in your email, phone number, etc, and have an instant list of every device you’ve owned,

1

Anonymous #2 2w

As well as every single person you’ve connected with over the internet. Ever since 9/11 and the passing of the patriot act, *we* have been the ones spied on by a *secret police* in their government, meanwhile our government deflects blame by saying that other people are doing that to their citizens. It’s fucking laughable and insane.

1

Anonymous #4 2w

Sooo… tell me again, who murdered, traumatized, and incarcerated millions of innocent people in Eastern Europe one more time. (After the fall of Fascism)

1

Anonymous #2 2w

I’d love to know how they qualify as communist according to you? Because apparently capitalists know what communism is better than actual communists. Isn’t that funny? Or is it because you think “government owns everything = communism”

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Nice deflection as you *drag* that goal post halfway across the field. As I’ve repeatedly said, you’re the dipshit with an obsession on USSR Stalinism. It’s funny you seem to care about “secret policy spying on citizens” until the conversation is about the US’s not-so-secret policy that openly spies on its citizens? You see how you have to create fantasies and boogeymen, meanwhile I can just reference the actions of our actual nation? Is that why you have to fixate on the USSR so much?

1

Anonymous #4 2w

Personally attacking me by calling me a dipshit is a logical fallacy. Maybe if you weren’t arguing out of emotion and on actual facts maybe you would have a point.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

You *need* me to defend the USSR’s authoritarianism so you can have ground to demonize communism, despite the USSR’s Stalinism not representing communism in its entirety (as it’s just one ideological branch under the umbrella of communism)

1

Anonymous #4 2w

I don’t swing that way brother but I appreciate the offer. I don’t need a communist to know that communism committed horrific crimes against humanity lol

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Don’t talk about logical fallacies *dipshit* ;) when you’ve done nothing but move the goalposts, engage in anti-intellectualism, and dishonestly twist my framing. How many more “actual facts” do you need, want me to print out a list of different communist ideologies and their relations; or is that too complex and baby can’t see past the word “communism” because it’s too scawy?

1

Anonymous #4 2w

Yeah that would help a lot, can you put it in Chicago oh and while you’re at it can you make it into TikTok edit? Short form media helps me ;) I would also appreciate some U.S. propaganda on the side please.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Lmao whatever you say pookie, I’ll remember that next time I’m thinking about the various genocides that were committed, and are being committed, under and in the name of capitalism. How disingenuous and malicious can you actually be. Well, either that or you’re just that arrogant in your stupidity

1

Anonymous #2 2w

You misspelled comrade since you’re in your USSR stan phase pookie, better not forget for next time!

1

Anonymous #4 2w

Bro would not survive the Stasi

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Or the red scare..

1

Anonymous #4 2w

You know what that’s actually one good thing to come from communism, “comrade” its a good greeting. I mean Soviet military stuff is cool too.

5

Anonymous #2 2w

Literally no one would you utter imbecile, but we have DHS and ICE here as an ‘MERICA version ;) Do you know what the red scare is dude lmao, it goes hand in hand with how we discussed US propaganda earlier. The intense fear of communism being fueled by capitalist western nations during the Cold War. The red scare is the exact reason you have beliefs such as those. It was the origin of this type of ideology about communism, that the USSR represents communism itself and that it’s something to

1

Anonymous #4 2w

Terrified of. That communism is an “enemy to be defeated” but I agree about the comrade thing lol, as odd as it is it’s such a chill way to talk to and reference each other lol

1

Anonymous #4 2w

Cry commie cry, I hate ICE just as much as I hate the KGB and SAS. My hero’s are the Polish liberation front that fought Nazi’s and communists and the IRA. I’m not scared of uniforms or ideologies I’m scared of men with guns that hurt my family.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Dude why can’t you realize that you’re fighting the wrong people. You’re out here acting as if I give a fuck about the USSR or Russia like you’re so fucking biased against communism (without even knowing what it is) it’s fucking insane. You have actual fascists in government right now, and your worry is the people who want to take away power and money from the billionaires WHO PAID TO BRING IN THE FASCISTS. You’re complaining about a branch of authoritarian communism that is near completely

1

Anonymous #4 2w

Disavowed by most modern communists; unless you just think that people and ideas are incapable of growing over time. Like I can’t comprehend your views, or how to explain communism to you. The USSR is gone, and so is the branches of communism that existed with it (aside from some fringe groups that may still ascribe to them). You’re taking out your plight with Stalinism and Marxist-Leninism (mostly Stalinism though based on your rhetoric) on people and ideologies who have no connection or

1

Anonymous #4 2w

No I’m not advocating for communism, nor do I advocate for more men with guns. I don’t believe any government is just or correct. Like I said, I’m more admirable of the people who fought against authority rather than those who impose it. Maybe you could learn a thing or two if you read some resistance literature, Bobby sands, or literally anything other than Marx and Engels or some other communists who’s just gonna jerk you off and not argue at all.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Holy fucking shit. This is what I mean when I say you’re ignorant and arrogant. Communism is not a government system, nor is it an authority structure. You’re going to latch on to the USSR for dear life, and I’m done trying to teach you. Stalinism, is not the entirety of communism, and I don’t know what it will take for you to admit that you’re not as informed as you insist you are (despite not knowing anything about communism except the single attempt that occurred within the USSR)

1

Anonymous #4 2w

“Armored cars and tanks and guns, came to take away our sons, but Everyman will stand behind the men behind the wire”

1

Anonymous #2 2w

Keep deflecting, and redirecting everything I say; but your issue is with authoritarianism, not communism specifically) despite your incessant persistence. Hence why most of your examples applied to the United States as well. Maybe just, idk, grow up a little? Until then, have a good day but I’m done with this pointless ass convo.

3

Anonymous #4 2w

“In the little streets of Belfast in the dark of early morn’ British soldiers came a running, wrecking little homes with scorn. Free of us the crying children dragging fathers from their beds, beating sons while helpless mothers, watch the blood pour from their heads.”

1