Anonymous just_peachy_ 10w

Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek the fathers of neoliberalism agree with you here too. Their answer was hollow out democracy to protect capital

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Anonymous .gaia. 10w

With it had gone the other way

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Anonymous .gaia. 10w

*wish

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Anonymous .gaia. 10w

Milton Friedman in 2026 be like “oh god it’s hot down here, oh fuck I can’t stand it”

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Anonymous #2 10w

It doesn’t rely on a utopian view of people not being greedy. It relies on people using various tools to remove those people and groups from society when they crop up

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Anonymous #2 10w

Utopian Socialism does exist too, but that’s a specific iteration of the ideology

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Anonymous .gaia. 10w

Fair point, I suppose I just don’t see a comfortable life in constant removal of power because of human nature. I respect the goals of it and you have a point, my personal preference just moves me towards reform

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Anonymous .gaia. 10w

This is true, although it lowkey worked in England for a little bit lol. I mean the more modern interpretation however, but I do appreciate the distinction there

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Anonymous #2 10w

Capitalism is because of greedy people and you like it more because the alternative assumes no greedy people? What is this logic 😭😭😭

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Anonymous #3 10w

I mean, yeah? Capitalism functions off the inherent greed humans have, a perfect communist society means that greed doesn’t exist. That’s not really possible. That’s my point there

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Anonymous #2 10w

I mean, “human nature” is largely a myth. Those are all assumptions (largely made by 17th and 18th century liberal philosophers). We are products of our environments and we are what we construct around us

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Anonymous .gaia. 10w

I’d say to an extent humans are naturally inclined to certain behaviors because of our biology, which is what I mean when I say “human nature”. For example, a toddler naturally is somewhat greedy over their toys or envious of the toys another toddler has, and some are not. We are definitely also a product of our environment and I do think our upraising is the biggest factor in our behavior, but there is some natural stuff there

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Anonymous #2 10w

Or to a really base level, a baby might be greedy trying to keep food from their sibling because they at an instinctual level want to survive

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Anonymous #2 10w

I mean, what makes humans exceptional from animals is the social aspect, which is 100% constructed. If you ask anyone that studies that field (Sociology) that is what most will tell you. Few behaviors are biologically encoded beyond base emotions tied to hormones and brain structure. We are blank slates when we are born. Majority of things are learned from parents and peers and specifically the mother.

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Anonymous #2 10w

Greed isn’t the natural thing there tho. Hunger is. And we will do whatever we can to satisfy it. If social conditions are such that it is unnecessary to fight for food and those behaviors are disciplined then people generally will not act that way unless they are a deviant minority.

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Anonymous #2 10w

Toddlers also are not necessarily a more reliable case to study than adults. Babies are influenced socially the moment they exit the womb. They are sponges that observe intensely

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Anonymous .gaia. 10w

Greed is in some level deep rooted in us. It goes back to that us vs them mentality. We see greedy chimps and other relatives of humans. I will admit a lot is social conditioning but we still have that desire to have excess because that allows the little animal part of our brain to feel comfortable. It’s why the Soviet Union and Mao China had corruption even while being anti capitalist that desire for more still lingers although it can be tempered in most it still remains

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Anonymous evil_sheep 10w

That has nothing to do with whether or not it ought to be suppressed or punished/disciplined. I am inclined to go against that line to thinking on the basis that while we are primates humans are not exactly the same simply because we descend from them. He exist at a higher order. Again “human nature” in the common understanding and which it has been used here is largely the pontification of liberal European thinkers from The Age of Enlightenment and don’t really have much basis in modern studies

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Anonymous .gaia. 10w

*we exist at a higher order

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Anonymous evil_sheep 10w

And yes, there will always be some people who yearn for power. That’s not the same as greed being some universal thing. And again the main point of contention being whether or not it should be regulated, we all agree generally that it should be. To what extent is the bigger question and to that end I advocate for the aims and methods of certain left wing ideologies and the unifying aim of leftist ideologies broadly: the end of capitalism

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