Anonymous #1 6d

That’s literally the current solution rn and it has never worked and has led to way more violence??

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Anonymous OP 6d

What do you think the Palestinian state is, Jordan? That is not the status quo, no one buys that.

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Anonymous #1 6d

Well yeah it has never fully been their own state but they claim gaza and the West Bank is a Palestinian state. Well now Gaza has been ethnically cleansed and there’s nearly nothing left and they’re slowing eradicating the West Bank. That is what a two state solution is in this instance. Hence why it’s still colonialism and not “peace and equality”

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Anonymous OP 6d

Do you know of any other independent states that are under a perpetual military occupation or ruled by two different governments, or is Palestine the only one?

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Anonymous #1 6d

Bruh I’m not claiming it’s an actual sovereign state I’m saying this is what two state solutioners are calling for! This is what was drawn up in 1947. Look how well it’s worked out!

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Anonymous #1 6d

How did a two state solution work for India? Ireland? It’s still colonization bruh

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Anonymous OP 6d

Nobody who earnestly claims to support a two state solution thinks that that is what is currently being implemented. What is ongoing is an endless military occupation with no meaningful progress towards a state in the West Bank in large part because there has been no political will on either side to move in that direction since the Intifada.

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Anonymous OP 6d

These are incredibly different situations all around, and treating them identically may win you points in socialist circle jerks but everyone who lives in the real world thinks you sound stupid.

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Anonymous #1 6d

How come every colonial two state solution leads to ongoing colonization and/or mass violence & continued conflict? You really don’t think this is what they wanted… How can there ever be an actual Palestinian state in the West Bank when it looks like this? It’s all intentional and it’s inevitable final conclusion is complete ethnic cleansing And drawing comparisons throughout history to make a historical analysis is what critical thinkers do. They don’t believe everything exists in a vacuum

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Anonymous OP 6d

Yes, correct, this is what I mean when I say no one who supports a two state solution thinks it is presently being implemented, I see you had to look at a picture but you did get there eventually.

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Anonymous #1 6d

Girl what 😭 nasty af for no reason when I’ve been nothing but polite how are they gonna successfully implement a two state solution that doesn’t lead to more violence, genuinely?

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Anonymous #1 6d

Let’s start with the West Bank. How are they gonna implement a Palestinian state with all the strategically placed settlements? /gen

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Anonymous OP 6d

It requires a few things. 1) Israelis need to get rid of Netanyahu, which will probably happen by the end of this year either by election or conviction. 2) Palestinians need to go about five years without committing any crazy terrorist attacks that the Israelis can use to justify doing anything they want. 3) Iran needs to stop funding terrorist group all around the area. Few more coming.

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Anonymous #1 6d

4) The Saudis need to condition normalization on Palestinian statehood and the US needs a President who will condition aid and loan guarantees on it. 5) Both sides are going to have to accept that they’re going to be extremely unhappy with the permanent solution to East Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. 6) Israel needs to permanently draw a map where it thinks its contiguous borders are, and Palestinians need to do the same, and they can iron out the details.

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Anonymous #1 6d

These are the major barriers but the East Jerusalem situation is as big as the others put together. Palestinian leaders have never actually been willing to put down in writing what they’d be willing to accept, because no deal where there is not complete Muslim control of the Temple Mount and exclusion of Jews will ever be acceptable to them.

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Anonymous #1 6d

Jesus Christ, ur just another disgusting anti Palestinian racist pretending to want peace. Ew. No wonder you’re so nasty

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Anonymous OP 6d

Settlements are a non-issue. The deep settlements will just be vacated with the IDF removing settlers by force, just like they did when they returned the Sinai to Egypt. The shallow settlements are mostly not something that the Palestinians even care about comparatively speaking and will probably wind up being part of Israel as part of land swap deals.

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Anonymous OP 6d

What? Which part?

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Anonymous #1 6d

Idk, are you unaware of what the status quo on the Temple Mount even is? Palestinians, Jordan, and the Saudis condemn it as a provocation any time a Jew has the audacity to pray there, at the site of their temple that Al Aqsa is built on top of. I think what you’re interpreting as racism is just a better understanding of the ethnoreligious conflict and the history than you have.

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Anonymous #1 6d

This is the primary, above all other things, point of contention that has prevented Palestinian statehood, because they view the entirety of East Jerusalem as their city and will not accept shared custodianship of the Temple Mount.

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Anonymous OP 6d

you can’t have a logical conversation with someone who supports a nation committing genocide. I commend your attempts, but there’s no way in hell that 1 will approach this genuinely.

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Anonymous #2 6d

Blow me? I am the only one in this thread who has any idea what the barriers to peace even are.

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Anonymous #1 6d

how about go fuck yourself? you’re over here blowing your own ego to sky high while your malicious misrepresent the Palestinian people. keep licking that boot as you engage in genocidal apologia

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Anonymous #2 6d

What have I said that’s a misrepresentation?

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Anonymous #1 6d

Attempting to assign all responsibility to Palestinians, not differentiating between the Israeli-funded Hamas and the overall Palestinian population, “Palestinians need to go 5 years without a terrorist attack” (acting as if the sole responsibility for this genocide and ethnic cleansing lies with the victims of said genocide, maliciously pretending that Palestine is the sole aggressor when Israel has been colonizing it for decades, ignoring the weaponization of the “two state solution”

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Anonymous #1 6d

Do I need to continue? You’re not slick, you’re just a scumbag

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Anonymous #2 6d

If that’s what you read from the words I wrote then you’re reading what you want to read, buddy.

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Anonymous #1 6d

I’m directly paraphrasing you.

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Anonymous #2 6d

Right, the issue you’re encountering is where you infer a meaning beyond what I wrote and start filling in gaps in your understanding of my position with genocidal intent. Fuck, why can’t anybody actually discuss this topic with more emotional stability than a four year old.

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Anonymous #1 6d

Actually if you read the second half of what you highlighted I’m very clearly assigning some blame to Israel for being a bad faith partner who to this point has not actually been interested in peace, and only continue to use every misstep by Palestinian leaders to take more of their shit

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Anonymous #1 6d

The topic is inherently about genocide and colonization, don’t try appealing to “civility”. please be my guest and explain your own words, since you’re attempting to claim that you didn’t mean or imply exactly what you stated.

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Anonymous #2 6d

I didn’t appeal to civility, I appealed to stability. You are incapable of talking about this without devolving into a tantrum after two posts.

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Anonymous #1 6d

So you recognize that the blame is on Israel? The nation that has more power in this power dynamic, with the support of the majority of the world’s nations? A big part of the issue is you’re (seemingly) advocating in support of the two state solution, but all that does is set the ground for a repeat of what we’re currently witnessing, and solidifies the colonization of Palestine.

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Anonymous #1 6d

you quite directly appealed to civility, don’t attempt to disguise it. If you’re upset about people rightfully bringing emotion into a conversation such as this, maybe your apathy is the issue.

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Anonymous #2 6d

I think there’s plenty of blame to go around if you look at the entire history, but I reject your framing that an independent Palestinian state sets the stage for more violence. It lets two populations who have a lot of very good reasons to hate each other space and security where they can chill the fuck out for a while, deradicalize, trade with each other and start forgetting the past 100 years. Confederation might be possible at some point but not right now, and not until they’ve calmed down.

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Anonymous #2 6d

What you mistake for apathy (it’s not, I care deeply about this) is an ability to remove emotionality from any analysis and take an honest look at what the major points of contention are and what need to be addressed to foster peace. Neither side wants a single state with equal rights, it is consistently the least popular option among both Israelis and Palestinians, and you won’t broker peace by trying to force them to live together when none of them want to.

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Anonymous #1 6d

but that’s the thing, you may be removing emotionality but you’re not making an honest analysis, you’re still grounded in bias. who says the Palestinian people don’t want a single state with equity for all living there? I can understand that being said for the Israeli government (but not all Israelis by association, there are many who advocate for this), and possibly the Palestinian government in its current form (which, requires the conversation as to how the current militant group was able to

5

Anonymous #2 6d

consolidate power and prevent further elections, as well as who funded said power consolidation), but to claim that “neither side wants a single state with equal rights” is utterly ridiculous.

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Anonymous #2 6d

“Who says” A lot of opinion polls that I’m happy to show you if this is genuinely new information to you. It is consistently less popular than a single unequal state (#1 choice on both sides) and a two state (#2). When I say “neither side wants it” I mean it does not have substantial support on either side, obviously there are people on either side who support it. The Palestinian government is also not just Hamas, the PA is who needs to negotiate this and they have their own problems.

1