Anonymous #2 2w

I doubt that will happen. America has shown that qualification doesn’t matter. In a meritocracy Kamala would’ve won but unfortunately we live in a country that values white male genitals over everything.

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Anonymous #2 2w

I’d love it if this were the case but myself and many other Americans can’t stomach the idea of risking the chance that another trump will win if we withhold our vote. I hate it but I’m gonna vote for a rich white moderate democrat over a rich white republican 99% of the time

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Anonymous OP 2w

Ong, ur an unserious person if you wanna claim that her loss had nothing to do with her being a woman. So many of the critiques around her were things that never would’ve come up if she was a man. She had lots of flaws (Gaza policy for example) but she was the better candidate between the two by far

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Anonymous #1 2w

I doubt this as well. Trump didnt do good his last term yet still he was voted in a second time. People don’t learn and rather than doing something different they’ll put their hand on that hot stove time and time again.

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Anonymous #1 2w

That’s why I think female voters should be sexist against men. If men do it to us, we should level the playing field a bit. Start coming up with ridiculous standards for male politicians. Do it subtly and repeatedly, let the bias against male politicians become sort of an ambient thing that people internalize subconsciously. It will take time, but the results will disempower the Epstein types.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Also I DO NOT want sexism against men in anything besides politics and maybe corporate leadership. Everyday life should be free of hate. It is only when power is involved that we resort to bias.

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Anonymous #2 2w

I don’t disagree with the rhetoric but it’s gonna have to be an organic thing and itll take time. I think it’s already started somewhat but unfortunately given our system people know they have to do risk reduction over anything else. If I have to choose between supporting a woman and supporting a man for the democratic ticket, I’ll want to support the woman but know that the man will have an easier time getting elected. So it puts people in a terrible spot

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Anonymous #2 2w

But that’s the thing though. For the most part the majority of all races voted for trump regardless of sex except black men and women.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Same reason that true progressives struggle to compete with moderate establishment democrats^

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Anonymous #2 2w

The way the polls were divided speaks to the state of the US when it comes to black people especially black women. Many minorities engage with white supremacy because they believe that in being in close proximity to whiteness then maybe white people will accept them and hardships will go away.

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Anonymous OP 2w

Wait I was wrong. The Asian Americans in general and Hispanic women mostly voted Kamala alongside black people but the rest majority voted trump

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Anonymous OP 2w

Sounds like men and white people are the problem. Perfect reason to discriminate against them

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Anonymous #2 2w

Ok but what are you practically suggesting here? Vibe wise I get it, they have always been the drivers of discrimination against women and minorities so we should discriminate back against them, sure. But practically what does that mean? And how does that change election year calculus given the system we have?

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Anonymous #1 2w

Well it will definitely take time. And organized effort on the part of people who really want to change the narrative. The good news is, spreading stereotypes is easier than deconstructing them. Studies actually show that hearing false statements, even if in the moment you know they are false, can lead your brain to misremember them as true.

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Anonymous #2 2w

But I’m asking what are you proposing that we DO? Try to institutionalize anti man sexism and anti white racism?

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Anonymous #1 2w

So, I think the move would be to invent a bunch of statements to make about male and white politicians that can only apply to male and white politicians, then repeat them a lot. Same with double standards and other subtle tools. And literally just repeat these things over and over during every political discussion. Even if people aren’t receptive at first, they will eventually start to feel like they can’t publicly disagree. Because your confidence and collective speaking make disagreement hard.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Example. Person A: “Remember when Trump did that thing?” Person B: “Ugh, Trump’s voice sounded like sandpaper.” Person B then repeats this insult with every male politicians they talk about. It conditions people to think “male voice in politics, bad” without them even realizing they think this.

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Anonymous #1 2w

If we come up with stupid reasons not to vote for male politicians without straight up saying it, we sway the collective away from male politicians

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Anonymous #2 2w

WHOA WHOA WHOA. You lot have gone off the rail. This is not the way to do this. We should strive for a world where NO ONE is oppressed not a world of opposites because all that does is beget a cycle. A world of abused becoming abusers only leads to innocent people being abused. No one should want that.

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Anonymous OP 2w

I’m with you, just wanted to hear 2 out to make sure I understood their idea correctly

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Anonymous #2 2w

Why do you think that this is a better approach than just pushing for genuine equality as best we can?

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Anonymous OP 2w

That’s fair. Before the whole Epstein thing, I would have said the same thing. But we are sitting here watching white, male oligarchs destroy millions of innocent lives. I think the ends justify the means, but only in politics.

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Anonymous #2 2w

Bernie Sanders would fit your description but he is a genuinely good guy. What Ik saying is painting with a broad brush is indiscriminate. There are nuances to this type of stuff. Shutting out a whole group only leads to the current climate we have now.

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Anonymous #1 2w

I don’t think it’s better than pushing for equality. I think the two can happen simultaneously. You can love white men in real life and hate seeing them in office. You can defend their right to not be drafted while opposing their presence in positions of power. In fact, minorities and female leadership tend to be better for white men than actual white men.

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Anonymous #2 2w

You cannot advocate for systemic discrimination and equality at the same time I don’t think. That being said, I do think there is utility in leveling the playing field through DEI type initiatives. Bringing women and minorities up to the level of white men. Theoretically I guess you could do the same by discriminating against white men explicitly but I just think that’s a bad approach

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Anonymous OP 2w

Idk, is he? Every white man in politics is a good guy until you find out he has a Monica Lewinsky or Epstein secret. Even Gandhi abused his wife. I know it would suck to be a white man and have no one trust you, but that doesn’t mean I have to trust white men.

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Anonymous OP 2w

I hope Bernie is a good guy. But how would I know? All I get to see is his political face

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Anonymous #2 2w

But the thing is white men in general arent the problem. They are byproducts of a damaged system. You are going after the wrong thing. If what you plan goes into fruition youll get the same outcome because it’s the system not the people. Also again white women and Hispanic men also voted majority trump. Should we bar them asw?

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Anonymous #2 2w

Wym? All you get to see is his political face? He’s given speeches, created legislation, written numerous important things…etc.

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Anonymous #2 2w

See that is the thing. All you are doing is opting for a system of oppression. That’s what we have now. What we are experiencing today is what we will experience if we follow what you are saying.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Well it’s an approach that white men with no morals are using en masse. Often without any self reflection or questioning of their petty biases. Maybe a bit of discrimination would give them a stake in the fight for equality

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Anonymous #1 2w

Every public thing Bernie does is public. Abuse and pedophilia almost exclusively happen in secret. Bernie is probably aok. But how would we know?

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Anonymous OP 2w

I see it’s higher risk. Any form of manipulation can backfire badly. And conditioning people to oppose white men in politics without their knowledge is definitely manipulative. In any case, I can see this approach won’t get the support required to actually do.

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Anonymous #2 2w

You can say that for literally everyone. How about Obama? Biden? JFK? Me? You ? Him him, him her him him bodies, bodies, BODIES, BODIES.

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Anonymous #2 2w

My fault had to throw Snowfall in there

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Anonymous OP 2w

Yes you can, but it’s more likely to be true if the politician is male and has an unfair advantage like wealth or whiteness.

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Anonymous #2 2w

Alright you guys have convinced me. I’ll keep this idea in my back pocket in case the morally unquestionable strategies fail.

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Anonymous #2 2w

Look I won’t tell you how to think cuz that’s not my place but this grand plan you have isnt much different from the grand plan these white politicians have and the results will look eerily similar if such a plan came into fruition. The people arent the issue. The system is.

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