Anonymous #2 1w

Plz fact check your sources, the writer rushed to publish a this from someone on the street who claimed to witness the incident. If it were true, which it isn’t, that would of course be a mistake and the members I hope would be released immediately

0

Anonymous #1 1w

Well that’s good to hear then. They’ve still detained US citizens and legal immigrants though.

13

Anonymous #2 1w

And illegal immigrants still have human rights. People have been getting deported without trial. This admin has been sending people to Guantanamo so there is less oversight. There are reports of torture, rape, and murder in ice custody. They sent a man to a Salvadoran torture prison by accident.

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Anonymous #2 1w

Well like I said above, their arrest would be a mistake and I would hope they would be released immediately upon the knowledge of their status. Being realistic when dealing with millions of people there are bound to be a few cases where mistakes happen. Of course any abuse should be prosecuted as well.

-2

Anonymous #2 1w

Also this article seems to include a large number of people who have been arrested while interfering with ice operations so a different case entirely

-2

Anonymous #1 1w

If the goal was to ensure that only illegal immigrants were deported, they would be putting extensive effort into verifying detention, not be deporting people without trial, not detaining random people on the street for not having a birth certificate, not be detaining legal immigrants, and not be detaining people at their immigration hearings.

18

Anonymous #2 1w

But this admin is trying to make it so there’s as little oversight as possible, that people will be deported before they can prove legal status, and that any abuses committed by ice agents will not be punished. The goal is not effective immigration enforcement.

15

Anonymous #2 1w

Effective deportations was Obama what Obama did. That was efficient. Trump is LESS efficient in terms of deportations but the point isn’t efficiency. The point is cruelty. The point is to use ICE agents as a tool to terrorize his perceived enemies.

11

Anonymous #2 1w

Arresting American citizens is certainly not acceptable, and I would support anyone wrongfully prosecuted of being an illegal alien, just as I would support anyone wrongfully prosecuted for any other crime. Odd cases and exceptions aside, ice serves an important role in enforcing democratically passed laws of the United States

-2

Anonymous #1 1w

…which is why this administration declared that ICE have immunity for all actions committed and declares anyone killed by them to be domestic terrorists before any evidence is available.

15

Anonymous #2 1w

Again i don’t support any misuse of their law enforcement functions, any abuse and excessive force should be punished. But it doesn’t change the baseline fact that ICE is an important agency that enforces this countries laws. The detention centers are part of that enforcement process, if there are problems that’s totally fair to call them out, but blanket labeling enforcement of our laws as racist and likening them to concentration camps is completely disingenuous

-1

Anonymous #1 1w

I mean Nazi concentration camps were legal. Something being legal doesn’t mean it’s correct. And normal border enforcement processes can be misused, and we shouldn’t dismiss criticism of its misuse by saying “well deporting people is normal though.” Kuwait and Bhutan both turned the border enforcement processes into ethnic cleaning by declaring their own citizenry to be illegal aliens (Trump has tried to revoke birthright citizenship and naturalized citizenship for many).

6

Anonymous #2 1w

If the pre-existing process is being used for Nazi bullshit, you can’t deflect from the Nazi bullshit by saying “well this process was originally used for normal stuff. The Nazis started by deporting immigrant Jews from Poland and encouraging emigration of German Jews.

4

Anonymous #2 1w

Border enforcement is not something unusual. But ICE has been turned into a tool primarily for terrorizing brown people and blue states.

5

Anonymous #2 1w

Illegal immigrants should be removed, no one is advocating for any form of ethnic cleansing, people voted for the removal of those in our country illegally, trying to dramatize the issue by disingenuously linking it to wildly different things only serves to incite division and deliberately encourage misunderstanding.

0

Anonymous #1 1w

“No one is advocating for any form of ethnic cleansing” …yeah. About that

8

Anonymous #2 1w

No, it’s not been turned into a tool to terrorize brown people in blue states, it’s being used to remove people who entered our country illegally or have broken our immigration laws. Federal laws are applied in both blue and red states, just because blue states don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s wrong

-2

Anonymous #2 1w

That’s not advocating for ethnic cleansing thats advocating for the removal of those in our country illegally

-1

Anonymous #1 1w

They literally just tried to sic ice on Haitians in Ohio after revoking their temporary protected status. They manufactured racist stories about Haitians eating pets, then tried to turn them into illegal immigrants and deport them. Why do you think ICE is mostly in Minnesota? 1 in 20 border patrol and 1 in 10 ice agents are in Minneapolis right now. Most illegal immigrants are in Texas, Florida, and California. Not Minnesota.

7

Anonymous #1 1w

You’re so fucking dense. There’s 14 million illegal immigrants in our country. There’s 48 million foreign-born residents. Where the fuck do you think they got 100 million from? Hm? That’s not how many illegal immigrants there are.

5

Anonymous #2 1w

“Temporary protected status” idk but it sounds like it isn’t permanent That’s because places like Texas and Florida largely cooperate with federal authorities and don’t try and claim some sort of immunity from federal law, and there’s nothing wrong with going state by state either

-1

Anonymous #2 1w

I swear people like you would be in lockstep in Nazi germany every step of the way. You know why? You don’t take issue with the ideology that leads to it. Most Germans didn’t know the Holocaust was happening, all they saw was Jews being taken away. You would just fucking sit there and say “well that guy broke miscegenation laws. And that girl is probably just getting resettled somewhere else, like Madagascar or Palestine”

6

Anonymous #1 1w

Haiti isn’t safe you collaborationist shithead. Temporary protected status exists because they will fucking die if they are sent back. And it sounds like you’re admitting that Minnesota is being targeted as a punishment. You disgust me. You truly do. You would come up with every possible justification. When they send ice to intimidate voters you will justify it. When they kill more Americans you will ignore it. When more people die in camps you will say it was an accident.

5

Anonymous #2 1w

Like you, people dramatize things, 100 million was prolly pulled outa their ass, is it helpful no, but it’s not what your trying to insinuate

0

Anonymous #2 1w

You sound like an unhinged dangerous person

0

Anonymous #2 1w

People don’t have a right to come to the United States. The United States doesn’t have a responsibility for the citizens of other nations. Our border and immigration laws should be enforced. You are an extremist

0

Anonymous #1 1w

Complacency in the name of injustice is not a strength. The correct reaction to people being murdered in the streets and in camps is sadness and rage. You SHOULD be angry, because fascists are rotting our government from within and are calling us terrorists when we are shot in the street. Those who sat and watched as their neighbors were taken away were not remembered fondly for their indifference.

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Anonymous #2 1w

How could ice intimidate voters 🤣 And I already said if you scroll up that any abuse by law enforcement should be punished. You’re ignoring everything I’ve said because you’re a radical who can’t understand a differing opinion without resorting to insane ranting 🤣🤣

0

Anonymous #2 1w

You take the fraction of a percent of cases that suit your interest and run with it, you make up random shit about the person you’re debating, and you try and draw similarities where none are to be had.

0

Anonymous #1 1w

The government isn’t punishing that abuse. You are saying that abuse should be punished but defending the government doing the abuse, pretending they have righteous intentions. This isn’t a conversation about the concept of border security. This is a conversation about what is happening right now. Germany and Kuwait and Bhutan all claimed what they were doing was deporting aliens. But that’s not what actually happened

2

Anonymous #1 1w

Oh you mean the heavily armed thugs known for tear gassing and beating Americans and who can just take you away for being suspiciously brown? You think that wouldn’t intimidate voters? That you could come to vote and they decide you look too Hispanic and then you are in prison for days?

4

Anonymous #1 1w

I’m sure that when they do more abuses you will move your own goalposts. Trump already tried to revoke birthright citizenship. Does that not raise red flags for you? They’re already deporting legal immigrants. When they do it more you will just find a new way as to how this is “necessary border enforcement”

5

Anonymous #2 1w

So one can’t support the enforcement of our immigration laws. You and people like you are the real fascists, trying to intimidate people into ignoring democratically passed laws. I bet you’d be out there in Minnesota setting up gestapo style roadblocks and harassing civilians and law enforcement alike if you had the chance. You don’t want to stop authoritarian government, you want to be the authoritarian government. Your logic is flawed only relies on hate and intimidation tactics.

-1

Anonymous #1 1w

1. The Nazis passed laws. The Gestapo was legal. You are so centered on the idea that legal means moral. 2. I never said immigration enforcement was bad. I have my own opinion but that’s irrelevant here. I said this administration is doing it as cruelly as possible, with many illegal violations towards citizens, legal immigrants, and the rights of detainees. You’re the one defending the government that says ice can kill with impunity. You are the one assuming they have good intentions.

4

Anonymous #2 1w

Imagine fucking sitting there on your ass and deciding a conversation about “this government shouldn’t be violating human rights in the name of immigration enforcement” is about immigration enforcement as a concept. It’s about the fucking action, not their supposed justification.

5

Anonymous #2 1w

I’ve said I think abuse should be prosecuted, I’ve said that ice can’t kill with impunity, you make up shit about me just so you can rant. Everything you’re attacking me for was pulled out of your head and isn’t based on what I’ve said. Your tactic is aggression, lying, and manipulation, and that’s how you go about debating, truly immature

0

Anonymous #1 1w

You said that abuse should be prosecuted but have defended the government doing the abusing. If you care about the abuse you would be saying “you know I think immigration enforcement is important but this isn’t how we should go about it.”, aka, the view of every mainstream democrat on immigration. We didn’t have ice executing people in the street under Obama now did we, but there were more deportations than under Trump

6

Anonymous #2 1w

The way you think is “how quickly can I make a link to the nazis” and “how can I tie race into it” and “what can I accuse this person of”, you don’t rely on argument, you rely on overwhelming your opponent with aggression

0

Anonymous #2 1w

No, what I argued was that I support this administrations goal of removing illegal aliens but at the same time have a firm stance against police misconduct and abuse. Go back and read what I’ve said, I think you’re confusing it for your rage induced lies

0

Anonymous #1 1w

Well I think I’m justified in believing the president who said immigrants were “bringing bad genes into our country,” the vice president who claimed “they’re eating the dogs they’re eating the cats,” and their white supremacist buddy Miller might be a wee bit racist. I can call a spade a spade.

6

Anonymous #2 1w

You’re obsessed with race, you’re the racist

-1

Anonymous #1 1w

So do you condemn this government deporting people by accident to El Salvador and then refusing to bring them back, deporting legal immigrants, revoking visas for what immigrants said, violating court orders, defending ice murder, trying to revoke birthright citizenship, and the abuses which have occurred in detention centers? Because you’re not really talking about those much despite being “against abuses”

4

Anonymous #1 1w

“If you think about the real racists are the people who point out racism” is a really funny take

4

Anonymous #2 1w

No the person who brings up race every chance they get and try to explain everything through the lens of race is the racist

0

Anonymous #2 1w

And I don’t need to repeat myself, you’ve brought up all these before and I clearly said I didn’t support any misuse of law enforcement.

0

Anonymous #1 1w

“Guys bringing up how racism impacts society and politics is racist actually” is an astounding level of historical illiteracy. We live in america man. Of course shit’s about race. Our first immigration law was banning Chinese people because we were racist. We didn’t let non-whites naturalize until 1950. The modern Republican Party is based on post-desegregation racist backlash.

4

Anonymous #1 1w

Ok, so why aren’t you talking about how we need to switch to Obama-era deportation policy? The modern policy has more abuse and is less effective in terms of numbers. It literally does none of the things you claim to care about.

4

Anonymous #2 1w

We should deport illegal aliens, that’s it plain and simple, if the Obama-era way of doing it is better, we should do that, if there’s a better way, we should do that. I’m literally agreeing with you that no matter how it’s done it should be done without abuse, idk what you’re even arguing about?

0

Anonymous #2 1w

The only thing I disagreed with you on is your likening it to a genocide

1

Anonymous #2 1w

Like literally half of this has been me repeatedly saying the same abuses by law enforcement are wrong and repeatedly telling you to stop making up things that I never said

0

Anonymous #1 1w

Ok well because it’s what you care about, it was more efficient under Obama. That’s not what I care about frankly. My entire thing this whole time, you can scroll and read, was that this administration is violating people’s rights and that I don’t think their actual goal is “illegal immigration” based on their actions.

3

Anonymous #2 1w

The disconnect here is that you still believe the facade that this administration is doing this out of genuine intentions for what you think matters, but their conduct doesn’t match that. My entire point is just that these kinds of violations and this kind of rhetoric has been used historically for awful awful things, and that we have to stop it before it gets there.

5

Anonymous #2 1w

Ok, I have read it all, I agree with you the violations of peoples rights are bad, I disagree with you on the idea that combating illegal immigration isn’t their actual goal.

0

Anonymous #2 1w

Well I think the disconnect isn’t that I believe in a facade, I’m just agreeing with the stated policy and goal, the real thing that going on, the disconnect is you believe in some conspiracy theory of a secret ethnic cleansing plan.

0

Anonymous #1 1w

I believe that based on them targeting Minnesota rather than Texas and Florida, that shows it’s a political ploy. They want flashy deportations, so they targeted Minneapolis because of the Somali story. Minnesota has very few illegal immigrants, under the national average. If they wanted to deport as many illegal immigrants as efficiently as possible, they would target Texas, Florida, and California. That’s where almost all of them are. But Minnesota is flashy, and they can punish a blue state.

4

Anonymous #2 1w

You can further look at this based on which immigrants they are and aren’t accepting. They are targeting Haitians, legal temporary residents who Vance repeated racist fake stories about. They are saying Haiti is safe when it’s not, meanwhile white South Africans are considered refugees.

1

Anonymous #2 1w

I would counter that with, well yes it can be seen as a political move, I believe the reason is because there has been such pushback and refusal to cooperate in places like Minnesota that to accomplish the same goal of removing illegal aliens there needs to be an increased presence, the goal is to enforce laws

0

Anonymous #2 1w

I think what’s at the heart of that issue is that Americans don’t want to be the destination for every refugee crisis, while I wouldn’t support sending Haitians back if they are in danger, I don’t think we should encourage them to come here. And I don’t think we should be accepting white South Africans either. People who are in danger have tons of other countries around them, why does the U.S. have to be their destination when they would be safe one country over.

1

Anonymous #2 1w

I believe that people from other countries don’t have a right to come here and that we don’t have a responsibility to accept the citizens of other nations.

1

Anonymous #1 1w

Ok then. Because we are thinking about the motivations of this administration though, what motivation do you think there could be for denying Haitians but accepting white South Africans. What is the difference between them that makes one palatable for this administration. And btw the reason the USA should accept refugees is because that’s required under international law and U.S. law.

6

Anonymous #2 1w

For refugees from Haiti, ok I can see that, they’re close by, but refugees from the other side of the world is stretching it. I will say that the circumstances are different, Haiti is filled with gang violence and rampant murder, while white South Africans are alleged to be facing a genocide whose goal is the extermination of their entire population.

0

Anonymous #2 1w

And the vast majority of legal immigrants to the U.S. are nonwhite so any assumption that they are accepting immigrants based on race is unsustainable

1

Anonymous #1 1w

Still, why do you think that reason is? Haiti is much more dangerous than South Africa. I’ve been to South Africa, the white people there are wealthy and arent killed disproportionately. Experts agree that genocide isn’t happening. The Boers are in way less danger than the Haitians. Why is white South African arrival encouraged while the Haitians are being deported? The same Haitians that Vance repeated fake stories about. Why are ICE resources being diverted to Haitians and not illegals?

3

Anonymous #2 1w

Well idk about that, I’ve seen government officials over there chant their intention of killing white South Africans Genocide - people want to kill you for who you are Vs Gang violence - you live in a shitty place but no one is necessarily out to get you because of that

1

Anonymous #2 1w

They both suck but one is definitely has worse potential as it can lead to ethnic cleansing

1

Anonymous #1 1w

Yeah the vast majority of legal immigrants to the U.S. are nonwhite. That’s why this administration is trying to cut legal immigration pathways too. If you look to the history of U.S. immigration policy, it’s largely shaped by racism. Our first ban on immigration was from China and Japan. Then the 1924 immigration act established ethnic quotas based on the existing U.S. population because people were scared of southern and Eastern Europeans.

3

Anonymous #2 1w

I disagree I think the current administrations goal is more of a cultural thing, bringing to many people from different cultures and societies makes it hard for them to assimilate. The strain on our welfare system is also part of it, and the price of housing Past immigration policies are no longer in place and no longer relevant

0

Anonymous #1 1w

Oh I actually am pretty well versed in South African politics so I can explain that. Those officials are an opposition party. They don’t control the government. The South African government is a coalition of the ANC and the DA (a white party). This coalition is to keep those bad people (MK and EFF) out of power.

1

Anonymous #2 1w

Well that’s good, again they are half a world away so in my opinion if anybody over there is truly in danger they should travel to a country one or two borders over, or at most maybe go to the uk or the Netherlands where they might better adjust to the culture if those countries will even have them

0

Anonymous #1 1w

You’re just about hitting it. It’s the fear of another culture. That’s what drove the Chinese exclusion act and the ethnic quota system of 1924. But you’re almost there. What about the culture makes it scary. Hispanic culture is very close to American culture. A shared history of democracy, a frontier society, and they’re Christian. But why is Melania from eastern Europe considered less scary?

3

Anonymous #2 1w

She came here legally

0

Anonymous #1 1w

South Africans tend to mostly emigrate because South Africa’s economy sucks and it’s pretty dangerous in general. Most go to Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. It’s more of an economic migration than a refugee situation though.

3

Anonymous #2 1w

Well that makes sense, they share a similar culture

1

Anonymous #1 1w

Yeah but people are still scared of legal Hispanic immigrants. I know my great uncle Cecil doesn’t think the legal Mexicans aren’t scary. He’s scared of Mexicans in general. It’s because they’re brown. Eastern Europeans, even if they come from a much more different culture, are viewed as safer due to whiteness. Those lies about Haitians in Ohio don’t make sense if it’s just about illegal immigrants.

3

Anonymous #2 1w

And it’s important also to look at the rhetoric. People like Elon and Bannon and Miller who are close to the president believe in something called “great replacement theory.” They say that brown people are going to replace whites through immigration. That is increasingly common in right wing circles. It informs what places this administration views as acceptable sources of immigrants.

6

Anonymous #2 1w

Idk I’m not scared of legal Hispanic migrants, I hope they can assimilate to American culture successfully. I don’t think millions upon millions of people who speak a different language and have different cultural practices whether they come from Germany, China, Eastern European countries, or Latin America is beneficial though

1

Anonymous #2 1w

Ok thats just conspiracy gibberish, the real policies that this administration is pursuing is in line with what people voted for, a stop to rampant illegal immigration

0

Anonymous #2 1w

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on what we believe the intentions of the government are, this has been going on for hours and I’ve got to get off my phone before I go crazy, glad we were to calm things down.

0

Anonymous #1 1w

Stephen miller is the current homeland security advisor. He is very close to Trump.

2

Anonymous #1 1w

Yea this went super long I feel bad for whoever op is. Have a good night, alright.

5

Anonymous #2 1w

👋

0

Anonymous #1 1w

One case is one too many. Can we deport you instead? Actually, no- that’s too nice. People like you need their finger nails torn from their hands.

3

Anonymous #3 1w

They were being sarcastic

4