Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Stevens, Cuomo

12

Anonymous OP 7w

People knew Mamdani would be elected if won the primary it’s New York. As soon as Mamdani won the primary even people like Kamala Harris backed him.

0

Anonymous OP 7w

Stevens has a good track record ig maybe she’ll lose this time?

-1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Stevens, Cuomo, Biden, Kamala, Hillary and Bill Clinton, and pretty much every other establishment/corporate dem

9

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

and Schumer, Gillibrand, and Hochul didn’t. Cuomo fucking continued his campaign as an independent.

11

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

and she directly lied about DTE funding her campaign during the debate? and made racially biased comments against El-Sayed by claiming he blames jewish people for everything wrong with the world?

4

Anonymous OP 7w

No she didn’t the question was about if she actively funded by DTE and she’s not. She had DTE money roll over from her previous campaign which is normal for politicians to do.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

she received 30k from DTE

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

are you still trying to act like that debate wasn’t disastrous for her?

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I don’t think it’s a norm for every New York congress member to endorse someone for mayor. If you have previous examples of it feel free to show it. Who was backing Cuomo when he was independent no thought he would win?

-1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Are you arguing that it’s not typical for party support to coalesce behind the candidate who wins the primary? Eric Adams won a very contested primary and faced no extended standoff with national party leadership afterwards.

5

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

De Blasio had an unexpected victory in his primary, and didn’t have to spend weeks trying to get the national establishment that constantly goes on about “vote blue no matter who” to back him.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

For a mayoral election no, it’s not common for everyone in congress to endorse someone for mayor. Cuomo isn’t party leadership he’s a disgraced governor lol.

0

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

address the direct examples of de blasio and adams.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Yes for her past campaign she wasn’t actively receiving money that was the question.

0

Anonymous OP 7w

No I’m just correcting the thing you’re misrepresenting.

-1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Politifact literally rated her answer as ‘mostly false’ and fact checkers have agreed it was misleading at best. You can split hairs about what constitutes a lie all day, but it’s clearly dishonest lmao

1

Anonymous OP 7w

The national establishment doesn’t usually endorse mayors

-1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

like you’re just fucking lying atp

1

Anonymous OP 7w

So idk why your using ai for this bc the specific dates matter. Eric Adam’s met with Joe Biden after he won the primary and to my knowledge Biden never explicitly endorsed him even though they were obviously friendly. He was there to talk about gun violence bc he was the Brooklyn Borough President it wasn’t about his campaign or anything,

0

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

I’m talking about the establishments refusal to back Mamdani after he won the primary lmao

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

“praised his practical approach to politics” while prominent party members were slandering mamdani as an antisemite after he won the nomination

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Pelosi met with him after everyone knew he would be mayor. This isn’t showing anything.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Everyone knew mamdani would be mayor after he won the primary, and he wasn’t hosted in washington?

0

Anonymous OP 7w

Bc democrats don't control Washington and he wasn't a borough's president. That's why Eric Adams met with Biden. The entire point seemingly was to push for Biden’s gun violence agenda.

2

Anonymous OP 7w

What am I lying about?

3

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

You’re saying there’s not a meaningful difference between Eric Adams being welcomed by the democratic establishment and endorsed by them after he won the nomination, and Mamdani being actively slandered by prominent democrats after he won the primary. What happened to “vote blue no matter who”

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

You’re trying to represent that national establishment support doesn’t coalesce behind candidates who win their primaries, and that there’s nothing to be noticed or criticized about Mamdani not receiving similar treatment.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

They did Kamala endorsed him, he just didn’t get endorsement from everyone in the new congress which is normal.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I think democrats gave him plenty of support considering his mayor on the far left of their party. He got endorsement mayors usually wouldn’t get like from the previous democrat vp.

0

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Kamala endorsing him doesn’t erase Gillibrand’s racist rant that was largely ignored by the high level democratic establishment, or the many continued holdouts among top democrats.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Obama literally endorsed de blasio. and Biden publicly praised Adams’ approach to politics. Pelosi endorsed Adams.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Why was Eric Adams meeting with national figures? It’s bc they invited him (along with other local officals btw) to address the spike in crime after Covid. The point of it wasn’t to endorse him bc everyone knew he would already be mayor. That’s the difference.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Everyone knew Mamdani was going to be mayor, you conceded it yourself. Schumer allowed senior party membership to slander Mamdani with islamaphobic remarks.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Again considering Mamdani is a far left mayor I think he got significant support nationally.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

so “vote blue no matter who” means “vote center blue no matter who” got it

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

and I think it’s hypocritical to trot out “vote blue no matter who” whenever progressives are rightfully not enthused by center candidates, and then to not keep the same energy for progressive voices. it’s a blatant double standard lmao. Bernie endorsed Hillary.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Does Schumer control every remark someone in the Democrat party makes lol what? I keep repeating this bc you’re not engaging. The distinction I’m making isn’t that people didn’t know if Mamdani would win. The distinction I’m making is there isn’t a democrat pushing a local crime agenda like Biden was at the time. It wasn’t about endorsing Adams idk how to say this.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

That’s part of his role as party leadership lmao. What do you think party whips do? Leadership absolutely exercises control over messaging within the party lmao.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Schumer probably can’t keep Gillibrand from being a flaming racist, sure, but he can absolutely condemn her disgusting islamaphobic remarks, and chose not to.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Obama called Mamdani and made his support of him public. Yes he endorsed him after he won the primary (when he was president btw) . You keep conflating people “endorsing him” vs meeting with him for some policy agenda.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

It’s not just about presidential support lmao. What other democratic nominee has faced continued vocal criticism from senior members in their own party after winning the nomination?

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Party whips - whip votes they don’t police every statement someone makes lol.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

So do you think it was a good/moral thing that almost nobody senior in the establishment made any statement on Gillibrand’s racist remarks that accused Mamdani of supporting “global jihad”?

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Why would the messaging be that no one can be against or critical of Mamdani? It depends on the specific statements but Schumer doesn’t control what everyone says. We’re doing so much gymnastics to make him responsible for someone else’s statement.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Who’s saying vote blue no matter who but is telling people not to vote for Mamdani. This isn’t a real thing.

0

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

That’s the exact messaging progressives receive whenever they criticize centrist candidates.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

When did I say that lol?

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Idk what to say progressives are gonna get criticisms from moderate people. If This is your gripe I guess I agree.

0

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

My gripe isn’t that progressives receive criticism. It’s the asymmetry in messaging around the concerns of progressives, and the concerns of moderates. When progressives voice displeasure with establishment candidates, they’re told to deal with it and “vote blue no matter who”. When moderates have comparable criticism of progressive candidates, the “vote blue no matter who” rhetoric is conveniently absent.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Time and time again progressives have been asked to fall in line with party leadership and back moderate candidates, but that essentially never happens with moderates w/r/t progressive candidates.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Like progressives have repeatedly been told that their criticisms aren’t meaningful, and that party unity is the more important thing, but the reciprocal relationship never fucking happens.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Gilibrand had to apologize bc of the backlash. I don’t think congressional leadership should be constantly amplifying party drama over a mayor when Gilibrand was already going to apologize.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Idk how to make you feel better about your feeling that people don’t say vote blue no matter who when it’s a progressive person.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

absurdly racist slander about a fellow party member isn’t just ’party drama’

1

Anonymous OP 7w

He was endorsed by Kamala, Obama major people in the party made it clear they supported him. Idk what else to say.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

can you provide any examples of “vote blue no matter who” being significantly used in support of a progressive candidate who faced criticism from the center?

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Sure if you have a problem with the semantics of it that’s fine. I still would say the same thing with different semantics.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

so your point is “party leadership shouldn’t criticize discriminatory speech within the party”? I thought the establishment’s outing and persecution of antisemitism on the left was a good thing?

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Yes when Kamala was asked if she supported Mamdani despite him being far left she said yes. Other party leaders did this as well. Chuck Schumer congratulated Mamdani.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

that’s not at all “vote blue no matter who” messaging, and that’s in a race that was effectively not a contest, to your own concession.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I never said they should never criticize racism. I’m saying they shouldn’t amplify a problem with the party that’s already resolving itself. Idk what the antisemitism thing is referring to I never said anything about that.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Progressives usually don’t win primaries outside of safe blue areas maybe I can find an example of another local thing? To my knowledge This doesn’t happen so idk what I’m supposed to point to.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

My b, I think I misattributed common centrist/moderate positions to you unduly. Many moderates heavily criticize alleged antisemitism on the left (it absolutely is a problem, i’m not trying to say it isn’t, just that it’s often overblown and relies on the conflation of antizionism with antisemitism), and I don’t think Gillibrand’s racist comments should be treated any differently.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

How is that not vote blue no matter who? She said yes vote for him bc he is the democrat in the race. I’m paraphrasing but to my memory those were almost her exact words.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

I mean I’d argue the stevens campaign is emblematic of this problem, she’s a terrible candidate, has run a poor campaign, and nonetheless received massive establishment support over the obviously better candidate who now leads her by 15 points in the polls. The loudest argument for stevens has been bullshit electability claims.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

“The establishment supported the most exceptional progressive candidate who galvanized an unprecedented base of support” isn’t really indicative of the establishment falling in line when progressives win primaries. I think the reaction to El-Sayed will be especially telling on this.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

essentially, I’d argue that Mamdani is a special case, and regardless of that he still didn’t receive anywhere near the level of support establishment candidates running against progressives do. Why is there always such a concerted spend from the center when a progressive voice activates and motivates the population?

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I think this idea that the Democrat party has to flagellate itself every time someone does something stupid is just a bad trend in the party. The issue was resolved I don’t know Gillibrand very well but I’m guessing she just conflated jihad with intifada. Which is stupid bc those statements have very different understandings.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

But the democratic party flagellates itself when progressives make the slightest misstep. I’m not saying the flagellation is necessarily good, but it absolutely occurs when progressives make mistakes, and happens far less when establishment candidates do so. For context, Gillibrand made those comments on a radio show, was corrected by the host, and doubled down nonetheless. It was truly an extremely islamaphobic remark, and she immediately doubled down.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Stevens has ran and won before. I feel like we’re not going to agree on if her campaign is good or bad (I feel like it’s very standard at this point). People are gonna support who they ideologically agree with more. It’s fine to get more ideological during a primary that’s kinda the point. There’s more moderates in the party leadership than progressives, so that all tracks to me.

0

Anonymous OP 7w

I feel like we moved in this convo to “they didn’t support Mamdani” to “ofc they supported him”. Again I think it’s fine to support a more moderate person if you’re more moderate during a primary this isn’t compelling for me.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

He did receive significant support idk what else to say. I don’t Eric Adams being invited to gun agenda meeting thing disproves that.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

What’s an example of a progressive being flagellated when a moderate wouldn’t be?

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

do you think releasing a press release with your opponent’s logo falsely claiming an endorsement from the republican candidate is ethical or an effective campaign strategy?

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

eric adams visiting with biden isn’t the whole of my argument.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

You’ve repeatedly cherry picked individuals who supported mamdani, despite the noticeable silence from a large number of senior party members lmao.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I mean I can list more people ig? Bc they’re significant people and again mayoral candidates don’t always get huge national level endorsements. Usually they get some from people in congress from their state.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

But it was the same with Nancy Pelosi and Cory Booker. Cory never endorsed him I think he just praised him after he won the primary.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I think it’s very obviously a joke bc it’s a quote from Rogers saying he would prefer to be against Abdul in the general. At the bottom of the press release it’s very clearly says it’s from Haley Stevens. Is the claim that she’s tricking voters into thinking the Republican is seriously endorsing the progressive in the race?

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Can you imagine the response a progressive would have gotten if they did something similar? It’s still deceptive as shit and actually false. Mike Rogers has not endorsed El-Sayed, and Stevens affirmatively claimed he had. It’s a gross way to campaign, that’s for sure. And that’s before you get into positioning herself as a ‘real michigander’ while running against someone who was born and raised in Michigan and was valedictorian at UMich. The Stevens campaign has routinely leveraged islamaphobia.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I don’t think anyone would gaf. This isn’t made to trick people it’s just joking about Roger’s saying he rather face El-Sayed in the general. The quote is real and they clearly tagged it in two parts as being part of the Stevens campaign. This is intention reading so hard. When I’ve heard Stevens talk about how she’s a real “Michigander” she’s saying that bc people make fun of her accent and she’s saying it’s a Michigan accent. I don’t think the point is to say El-Sayed is a fake Michigander.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Islamaphobia is deeply rooted in this country. When you’re talking about how your highly qualified opponent is someone obsessed with celebrity, and that you care about real michiganders, despite his years of public service to the people of michigan, it’s hard not to see the implication.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Is that an Islamophobic trope that Muslims want to be famous lol what?

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

No, the whole implicit ‘not a real michigander’ thing is the islamaphobia lmao

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I don’t see any reason to think that directed at him not being white. Her base wouldn’t even like that.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

You’re telling me that highlighting your self as being a real michigander against a candidate who is just as much a michigander as you are, who is a muslim and has a muslim-sounding name, isn’t a tacit implication he isn’t because of his heritage/faith? lmao. she even doubled down and claimed he blames jewish people for all the problems in the world. Her campaign and related attack ads have repeatedly played on stereotypes about Islam, notably with the completely unfounded allegations of sexism.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I mean maybe if I saw more examples. To me the character that’s she’s trying to make is that he’s this guy who’s more focused on social activism and being a podcast celebrity over caring about people from Michigan.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

The sexism ads come from a super pack that Stevens doesn’t have control over as far as I found.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Literally spent years serving the people of Wayne County and has raised $57m for medical debt relief. Wants medicare for all and better healthcare options for all of us, which includes MI. Like what else can he do to prove he cares about michigan? Stevens literally claimed he blames jewish people for the world’s problems, drawing on islamaphobic tropes about antisemitism.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

and she has every option to denounce them as islamaphobic and racist, but chooses not to.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I don’t agree with the characterization I honestly don’t know that much about him. He’s claiming Stevens part of a huge system of systemic corruption she can’t just say he’s an outstanding public servant. She would obviously get washed if that’s what she was doing. He does bring up aipac a lot in situations where doesn’t rlly make sense. When asked about affordability during the debate he started going on about apiac.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

how much has AIPAC spent on her campaign? He’s pointing out the factual realities about her funding and about money in politics. It’s absolutely relevant to affordability because of the effect the war in Iran (which Israel dragged us into) has had on gas prices. Moreover, it’s just an inefficient allocation of capital. what is it, $41m spent on her campaign?

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

like if you take a bunch of corporate pac money and AIPAC money, you can’t really be annoyed about people saying you took a bunch of corporate pac money and AIPAC money.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I mean that seem like it makes sense but Stevens has generally voted to limit the war in Iran. It’s fine to point out that she’s gained money through apaic. I just think saying you’re going to fix affordability bc your anti apaic isn’t a good answer.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

and I think dodging questions about your AIPAC backing isn’t a good answer.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Depends on the specific question and what we mean by dodged it. Al-Sayed dodged the question about his podcast. His podcast income would be way less regulated compared to campaign financing.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

$300k of podcast income vs $41m of AIPAC funding, holy false equivalence lmao.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

The difference is you don’t know where the podcast money is from vs you know what interest aipac has. That’s why it’s being brought up as a conflict of interest. Also that’s not money going to his campaign that’s going to him personally.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Ok? still down 15 points in the polls bc of her garbage debate performance.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Are you referencing a real poll or a website poll?

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

Emerson College 3 days ago. El-Sayed at 54%, stevens at 39%.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

six percent undecided, and 57% of those undecided lean towards El-Sayed.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Yeah she might lose. It seems like the college came to that number by factoring “undecided” people who leaned one way or another. I’m guessing those are pretty low propensity voters but I’m guessing she has a real chance to lose.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

No they didn’t. 54% for AES plus 39% for Stevens leaves the undecided 6%.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Oh I get what the article means like out of that group of undecided they asked who they leaned towards.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

yeah, so if you factored in the undecided portion, the situation just gets worse lmao

1

Anonymous OP 7w

for stevens, that is

1

Anonymous OP 7w

Yeah idk what to say L ig.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

i mean maybe it’s indicative of her campaign and messaging being ineffective? or her debate performance being poor? or that she’s significantly less electable than she claims?

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

i do have to commend you for accepting the L, genuinely. takes a good person to acknowledge that.

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I mean we’ll have to see how it shakes out but generally I think she’s ran a pretty standard campaign. Populism is a bigger narrative now on the left idk what you can do about it. But that’s the entire point of the primary to see what works.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

i mean yeah, and that’s why I’m tired of the electability messaging during the primary and then eventual “vote blue no matter who” whenever it doesn’t break progressive. like if the point of the primary is to see what works we should let the primary fucking run yk?

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I mean is Steven personally stopping the primary? I feel like all of this is pretty standard electoral politics and we’re making it out to be this epic thing. It’s fine for people to talk about electability if they’re wrong it’ll blow up in their face and they’ll look stupid. Just let people take the risk if you think they’re messing up.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

I mean electability concerns are often heavily amplified by establishment figures, which results in what is arguably undue influence in results imo.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 7w

I’d also have a hard time calling this race standard electoral politics. This has become a proxy race in effect

1

Anonymous OP 7w

I don’t think I’ve ever rlly seen that I think progressives have a lot of momentum right now. If El-Sayed wins the primary and we see that I’ll change my mind. Progressives have had an electability problem maybe that’s changed.

1