Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 3w

i mean i don't think we owe them any apologies, unfortunately we have to play in the 2 party system until we can get rid of it. if we have to have it harris would've a little better than trump and tbh i'm pretty pissed that so many people fence sat in the last election

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 3w

we need ranked choice voting

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Anonymous OP 3w

Do you genuinely think that the two party system will let you implement ranked choice voting, or maybe should we stop trying to “play by the rules” of an intentionally rigged game, and just overthrow and recreate the entire game? I can guarantee you that as long as there are democrats and republicans, and an electoral college to support them, you will never see ranked choice voting on a national scale - especially for presidential elections; and also, you’re acting as if this system is

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Anonymous #2 3w

Reparable at all. It has already fallen. America is already broken and done. Stop trying to hold onto a *broken* system that was founded upon white supremacy, especially after that founding white supremacy and fascism resurfaces and takes power again. It’s time for a new start and a change in the powers that be. It’s time for the workers to take control, by force if need be, because they will kill the majority of us if they need to. We shouldn’t let it get there.

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Anonymous OP 3w

No politician is going to save us, especially when every single politician is bought and owned by a genocidal war machine. It’s wild to keep blaming people who refused to cave on *genocide* in the last election as well, when Biden and the DNC literally held the primaries hostage. It’s literally a game, and it’s rigged against us. One party always presents as the “people’s party” while the other implements the systems true wishes, while both ultimately represent our overlords: the capitalists.

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Anonymous #2 3w

i don't disagree with you but what are we supposed to do in the mean time?? the better of the two evils fucking sucks, i don't want to have to say it but that's where we're at right now. unfortunately the gaza situation wasn't going to be helped by this election, and i absolutely hate that that's the case. but you're seriously telling me you'd rather have trump fucking up everything else plus gaza instead of harris?? that's ridiculous.

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Anonymous OP 3w

No, I didn’t say that I’d prefer trump. Obviously, for my own sake, I don’t prefer trump (I’m nonbinary and trans); but when both candidates are openly willing to engage in and commit genocide, then my own stakes are less of a worry for me because I know ultimately it WILL come for me eventually anyway. The only potentially good thing about a trump administration over a Harris administration is the attention trump brings towards the US imperial empire and our role in the world, atleast imo.

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Anonymous #2 3w

also, fence sitting or voting 3rd party doesn't get anything done. you might feel like you can take the moral high ground for not voting for genocide, but everyone that didn't vote or voted third party were complicit in trump getting elected and got genocide anyway. so what exactly was the point?

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Anonymous #2 3w

He can’t reinforce that same lie for most centrists atleast that were the “worlds police”, it’s woefully obvious how many atrocities were committing, and that international attention and arguably organization is continuing to grow (I hope it continues into an organized international workers movement). I don’t think we would’ve had that otherwise. Harris would’ve (I imagine) financially and militarily supported the genocide, continued our imperialism as all presidents have, but

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Anonymous #2 3w

Likely without the growing international support. TBH, I don’t fucking know and I’m sorry. I’m not saying not to vote, but it can’t be the only thing we do. We can’t rely on the broken system to save us from itself, if that makes sense. I’ve been trying to set up a greenhouse recently to start growing food, and plan to find a little community to organize in close to home, but it’s really weird rn. The parallels to pre-ww2 1930s are terrifying :(

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Anonymous OP 3w

See, this is the issue right here. the DNC has convinced you and millions that the VOTERS are the issue, instead of them… Like this is literally what I’m talking about, it’s no different than the cultish behavior that maga has towards trump. The DNC literally sabotaged the primaries in 2024, they prevented any potential candidates from running by doing that bullshit with running Biden then pulling him last minute. Why the fuck are you blaming voters, for *checks notes* not voting for genocide?

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Anonymous OP 3w

Maybe, take a look in the mirror and recognize the similarities the DNC has to the RNC, and wonder why they haven’t done nearly anything to meaningfully resist the actions of this fascist coup, instead, advocate for deeper training for ICE officers. Be fucking fr.

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Anonymous #2 3w

tbh this is exactly what they want, they want us to be confused and overwhelmed and to fight with each other about things that actually don't matter (like voting 3rd party lol). i really didn't want to vote in the last election, i absolutely hated both options. personally its just frustrating that trump got elected and is now raising hell for pretty much everyone that isn't a wealthy straight white man when i don't think this would have been an issue had the election gone the other way.

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Anonymous #2 3w

i 100% agree that we need to abolish the 2 party system and abolish capitalism but i think for me it's the fact that imo we have a more pressing issue atm, getting trumps ass out

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Anonymous OP 3w

I agree w that, regarding that this is exactly what they want (the capitalists who fund our government), but in all honesty I think we were on this trajectory regardless. Even if Harris was elected, it would’ve taken a few more years but this has been planned for decades (since the heritage foundation started giving “mandates” to republican presidents starting with the Reagan). The white supremacist nationalists of this nation have been planning a coup for quite some time

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Anonymous #2 3w

dude i don't fucking like the dems

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Anonymous OP 3w

If both parties in the two party system have the same goal then do we have to play it? Like obv a third party won’t work but this also won’t word. We’re set in a situation that forces us to always lose because both our parties want the same things

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 3w

Not exactly the same obv but the underlying incentives lead them to the same general ideas

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Anonymous OP 3w

I do think it wouldn’t have directly happened under Harris, but imo it doesn’t matter at all. Genocide would still be occurring on our dime (and by extension, by our hand), and the societal treatment towards trans ppl in society would’ve still deteriorated slowly. IMO it’s just a slow burn vs a fast burn at this rate, I’m trying to find the option where we put the fire out

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 3w

no i get it, i hate it as much as the next person... but imo things would not be as bad for so many citizens if trump hadn't got elected

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Anonymous #2 3w

i mean whatever, i definitely don't think we'd have masked fucks in the streets shooting people, tearing families apart and arresting children and legal citizens under harris

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Anonymous #2 3w

i understand and agree with your baseline point, the system is not sustainable and will crash eventually one way on another. my point is, it's hard to work on abolishing the system when the public is too overwhelmed, poor, and scared to come together to make it happen. therefore, getting rid of trump (or not electing him in the first place) is the priority, it needs to be addressed before we can begin the other work

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Anonymous OP 3w

I don’t think we would either. But right after her administration, we likely would’ve, and either way, our comfortability as Americans is not worth genocide. Also, we’ve had our own fascism going for decades for marginalized communities. The only difference is now white people are subject to it as well. The literal only thing that will stop this is a worker-led rebellion, but most Americans aren’t ready for that conversation.

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Anonymous #2 3w

Sorry, not decades, centuries** This has never been a true democracy if you weren’t born white (or a cis male for that matter); but again a lot of people aren’t ready for that convo

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Anonymous OP 3w

Yeah but trump isn’t the root cause though, that’s the point. He’s just a symptom of the issue that’s been growing for years, within each and every American. Even if, assuming the absolute best, elections go as planned, results are respected, trump leaves office and power is peacefully transferred; Nazis will literally elect and vote another Nazi into power, after 4 (or 8) years of propagandizing and shifting the center of politics in this country AGAIN, forcing dems to follow…

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Anonymous #2 3w

and that’s assuming the best, that the Nazis don’t engage with their actual belief of pursuing violence against other political ideologies and clearing the playing field for total power consolidation….

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Anonymous #2 3w

if there was a viable option to vote against the genocide in gaza i would have done it. ideally there would've been a way to get around the inevitable. but realistically (not ideally) it was essentially, and very unfortunately, an irrelevant point for that election. there were sooo many other issues on the ballot. i refuse to be ok with the fact that thousands of americans are currently suffering unnecessarily because others had to sit on a moral high horse.

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Anonymous #2 3w

i hate the system. but what choice did we have at the time??? i think you're being idealistic (which is good and necessary and important for change), but you have to also be realistic

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Anonymous OP 3w

But trump did get elected and the democrats don’t care. They’re okay with it. They don’t feel like separate entities anymore is the issue. The democrats will just kill less people, which granted is a big deal, but if they just facilitate the return of fascism again for the third time, did it even matter?

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Anonymous OP 3w

You keep insisting that we’re in this due to voters, but regardless of how much you try that shit it doesn’t change the fact that the DNC is fundamentally at fault for refusing to hold primaries or listen to their voters at all. I literally do not give a flying fuck if you blame me for this shit, as you sit there and claim that your domestic *comfort* and stability is more important than our international impact on other nations and their citizens as we sanction murder with our hand on the gun.

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Anonymous OP 3w

allowing trump to take office is causing much more suffering than the american system would've caused other wise, and it's not ok that people didn't try to stop it

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Anonymous #2 3w

Like, I promise you that no matter what yall claim about us “selfish voters”, the dogshit party you claim to dislike will continue to hemorrhage voters for upholding its role the rise of fascism. You’re acting as if voting democrats are a resistance or rebellion against fascism; all you’re doing is pushing it down the line towards others so *you* don’t have to deal with it. They’ll still comply with republicans regardless.

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Anonymous #2 3w

All this does is push the impact down the line so certain people, namely white people, don’t have to deal with it. That’s all the two party system has ever done, it’s not like it’s any different now that the mask is off.

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Anonymous #2 3w

i literally said that i hate the dems, they fucked the election completely, i'm very aware. but i still don't understand what we were supposed to do during that election. there was no organization of the people to change anything before it happened. we had no choice. you're making it sound like the suffering of thousands of immigrants, women, poc, lgbtq (etc) is ok? it's not about *me* at all, the REALISTIC goal was to cause the least amount of suffering total

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