Anonymous #1 8w

How is it racism?

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Anonymous OP 8w

Also discrimination based on gender (anti-feminist)

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Anonymous #1 8w

Waiting for the ban or an an explanation any second now…

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Anonymous #1 8w

You’re trolling

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

Men dont have “inherent qualities”, they’re socialized by the patriarchy. If men’s wrongdoings are a mere result of their genetics they cant be accountable for their actions

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Anonymous #3 8w

Just bc your genetics and biology impact you doesn’t mean you don’t have autonomy over your actions. Unless we’re gonna argue genetics has no impact over a person’s life which is a silly thing to believe.

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Anonymous #3 8w

I also don’t what you mean by “men don’t have inherent qualities”.

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

Men and women are biologically different, yes. But to say that sexual assault by men is a result of “inherent qualities” and not systemic factors is a ridiculous statement that quickly falls apart when applied to other groups, and also excuses men for their behavior

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Anonymous #3 8w

Why would you assume I’m saying assault is inherent and not the higher likely hood of committing assault?

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Anonymous #3 8w

Also this is getting into a deeper philosophical thing. I’m a Determinist so I believe humans and their actions are 100% determined by things they can’t control like their genetics and environment. Regardless I think to have a functioning society you still need to prescribe some autonomy to people. Like people can make choices but they were always going to make that choice kinda thing.

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

Do you not see how that’s contradictory?

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

I think you’re missing the point of the meme. Imagine you said “it’s not all [ethnic group], but it’s always a member of [ethnic group]”

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Anonymous #3 8w

It’s not a condriction there’s a difference between saying this is factually true and this is how society should understand a concept. For example red is a social construct even though there’s different wave lengths that make red. The category is “made up” people making choices is “made up” both benefit society.

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Anonymous OP 8w

I’m saying men are different than an ethnic group that’s my point.

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Anonymous #3 8w

Depending on what you mean by making choices

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Anonymous #3 8w

This is an easy series of question to figure this A. Do people control their environment and genetics B. Do environment and genetics totally determine someone’s life outcome?

1

Anonymous blue__wave 8w

Men as in a gender construct or are you arguing some sort of genetic essentialism?

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Anonymous OP 8w

Neither are totally true. “Men” can be a social construct and there can also be biological differences between people.

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

Do you see how “people can make choices but they were always going to make that choice” is contradictory? That same argument is used in religious circles to justify abuse btw

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Anonymous #3 8w

I already said it’s how you define “choices”. What’s even the implication that I’m promoting religious abuse lol?

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

Give me the definition of choice that makes independent autonomy and predestination mutually true

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Anonymous #3 8w

Some kind of social construct to prescribe autonomy to an action. When did I ever say I believe in independent autonomy I feel like I’ve been saying that exact opposite.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 8w

You said “people can make choices but they were always going to make that choice”.

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Anonymous #3 8w

Yes and I just defined what I meant when I said choice

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

Not to be that guy but I’m gonna be: I’m a man and never once have I had the thought to harm someone in that way. It’s sick, it’s wrong, and anyone who does it forfeits their life in my opinion. Rapists can be hung in the streets for all I care, let them rot. You cannot generalize HALF of the human population by saying “Well it’s just part of their biology ☝️” bc that’s the exact argument racists used to justify slavery. It isn’t an inherent quality, it is a cancer that needs to be rooted out.

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Anonymous #5 8w

Treat it as such.

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Anonymous #5 8w

Also, I fear you’re being intellectually dishonest in your above interaction. Firstly, biology AND environment have to do with how a person acts. This is factual and based on the fact of mental illness being passed down, as well as mental illness developing through various environmental factors. “Men” is a generalization used to name a group of people, and you’re using it to justify a sweeping generalization that characterizes all men as brutish criminals and rapists. This is inherently sexist.

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Anonymous #5 8w

Yes, most reported rapes are men doing things to women because it’s far easier for a man to rape a woman. This is factually true, but that doesn’t change that I and other men have been SA’ed by women who said the very same shit you’re spouting off now. My ex used to say “I hate men, they’re all pigs”, and then later she SA’ed me. I did not report this to the police because I was ashamed of myself. I thought “Who would believe a man got SAed by a woman smaller than him?”, I thought that I was

1

Anonymous #5 8w

Somehow unclean for what had happened and I carried that for a long time. Eventually, I opened up to my current girlfriend and she didn’t laugh at me, she didn’t say “Yeah well but it’s usually men so whatever”, she said “I’m so sorry that happened to you.” And she made sure I was always comfortable. It is wrong to consider RAPE to be a gender thing instead of what it is: A crime against the greater societal consciousness.

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Anonymous #5 8w

That ends my TEDTalk. TL;DR, don’t go there about this bullshit because most men are equally sickened by rapists and there are those of us who have had our own experiences, you have no right to invalidate that just because you have a backward sexist view that doesn’t consider the nuance involved.

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Anonymous #5 8w

Ok I think there’s just a communication problem. I’m not saying most men are pro rape or that no women would ever rape someone. I’m not try to invalidate anyone’s experience I’m speaking super generally.

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 8w

lol what did I say that was terfy?

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Anonymous #5 8w

Also what did I specifically say that was dishonest? Or what did I specifically say that you have a problem with bc I feel like I didn’t rlly say anything you talked about in this.

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

Your entire argument was defending gender bioessentialism and framing the “inherent differences” of men and women as rendering men inherently more prone to violence and sexual predation than women. That’s literally the bedrock of all TERF arguments.

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 8w

People can be trans saying people have different characteristic and we could roughly group these people isn’t anti trans. We’re doing a lot gymnastics here.

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

No we’re not. You said that the inherent predilection toward violence by men is inherent in their biology. Tell me, are you saying trans men are inherently more violent/prone to violence than cis women too? Because unless you are (in which case your argument makes even LESS sense), this is pure TERF thought.

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 8w

I know we’re rlly trying to connect me to terfs for some reason even though I’m pretty pro trans. Ig that’s what you do when you can’t respond to the point you just try to connect it to a thing people already think is bad. Your biology responds differently to different environment. It’s possible that in different environments women are more violent. For the question I have no clue I haven’t seen any number for trans women being more violent.

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 8w

Even if that were true that wouldn’t make being trans is fake or something.

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

I’m not “trying to” connect anything, it is inherently and plainly connected. If you’re saying it’s actually about environment and not inherent in biology, then you don’t actually believe your original claim but that original claim was still the foundation of all TERF thought. And just because it was a key component of TERF thought doesn’t mean I’m calling you a TERF, you can still accept trans people exist and have bad underlying opinions.

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 8w

I’m not saying it’s entirely either that’s the point. There’s a complex relationship between the two. I don’t have a different claim you’re not getting what I’m saying. What’s the bad underlying opinion, what specially did I say?

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

Directly above you mentioned both the genetic or environment argument, the biological difference involved, and yknow defending the original standpoint that is used as a sexist dog whistle. I realize you’re not trying to take away from anyone’s experience, and I also realize you didn’t say all men love rape or anything of that sort. I raised those points just because I think there are other factors at play for why so many reported cases are women, because many men like me may not report it, etc

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

You said that “men” are biologically more predisposed to commit violence than “women”; you more recently seem to have walked that back and indicated that “men” are subjected to more of their biological triggers for a disposition to violence than “women” are and that the two classes have different such triggers. Both of those are bad opinions that reflect factually unsupported bioessentialism in a discussion of gender.

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Anonymous #5 8w

The main biological argument you have to make is that it’s biologically easier for a man to commit rape than a woman because a man has (usually) more strength and it’s easier to force yourself on someone in that way as a male than it would be for a woman (again usually there are exceptions)

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 8w

How is that a walk back? the two statements “men are more genetically predisposed to violence” and “genetics respond differently to different environments” aren’t contradicting statements. All want is a statement I made and what’s bad or wrong about it. That’s what I’m curious about.

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Anonymous #5 8w

The genetic and environment argument aren’t mutually exclusive, depending on the argument. Why did you bring it up if I didn’t say any of that lol. I kinda feel like that implies I said all of that. I still don’t get what you disagree with? Are you saying I dog whistled something? What was the dog whistle?

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

1) Saying that it’s primarily biology on its own, or primarily biology primed to respond to different stimuli, are two distinct and conflicting claims. 2) I have you two things you said (repeated above) and why they are bad (they reflect factually unsupported bioessentialism in a matter of gender). 3) I don’t believe that you are curious, if you were you would be engaging the answers I give you at least a little bit.

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Anonymous blue__wave 8w

I’m saying those were brought up to address other causes for the original post which you’re defending, it’s implied you agree to a certain extent with it if you’re defending it. The “not all men but always men” is used to be sexist often, so it’s perpetuating a harmful stereotype about men. Also, correct they aren’t mutually exclusive, I didn’t say they were. I’m pointing out however that it has far more to do with hormone imbalances than a natural tendency for a male or female

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Anonymous #5 8w

I don’t agree with the other post I’m just saying it’s more reasonable to point out male violence as a more inherent quality vs violence from a specific race. I can see why you would think that but I’m just what I’m saying.

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 8w

1.) when did I ever say it was biology on its own?? 2) so you think there’s no biological factors that make men more likely to commit violence compared to women? 3) idk how to engage with someone who poorly rephrases what I say and then argues with that lol. Meanwhile you’re implying I’m a terf lol. You seem super interested in a productive convo when you start with a random insult.

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 8w

Notice I haven’t once try to label you some random ideology or imply some secret motive, but yes I’m being bad faith so true.

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