Anonymous #2 4w

lots of zionists are like well they were arab invaders which is only partially true bc they’re arabized levantine people

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Anonymous #2 4w

I feel like there’s this fascinating conflict between the biblical history and the archaeology, and how in both instances it doesn’t go back to support the Zionist claim to greater rights. (I’ll explain)

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Anonymous #3 4w

Basically the claim is supposed to portray Arab people as invaders in contrast to indigenous Jews. The biblical history (outside of a religious promised land belief) conflicts with the idea that Jewish people have ultimate right to the land, because it says that Canaanites were there first.

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Anonymous #3 4w

The actual history doesn’t agree with this. Archaeology shows that the Israelites originated from Canaanite populations and were not foreign invaders. But this actual archaeology also shows that Palestinians are just local people who adopted Arabic culture. So in every instance it doesn’t support the idea that Levantine Arabs have less right to the land than Jews

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Anonymous #3 4w

Also genetic tests of Jews show that they have more in common genetically with local populations from the countries they came from than they do with people from the levant

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Anonymous OP 4w

I’m not really sure about that? I’ve read a number of genetic studies on the topic and it tends to vary between Jewish communities. Most cluster close to Levantine populations, with varying degrees of admixture from their diasporic neighbors. That indicates Levantine origin with some genetic introgression from their host countries. Palestinians, similarly, show a degree of Arabian and Egyptian genetic introgression, but a mostly Levantine origin.

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Anonymous #3 4w

A few Jewish groups show little to no evidence of Levantine genetics. This is Beta Israel from Ethiopia, and India’s oldest Jewish communities. This indicates they were either converts or their Levantine ancestry is very small.

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Anonymous #3 4w

The Levantine genetics found in Ashkenazi Jewish communities is a direct refutation of that “khazar theory” of Ashkenazi origins that’s been bouncing around. It claims that Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Turkic groups who converted to Judaism. But the genetics indicate that isn’t the case

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Anonymous #3 4w

Decided to read up on a paper I wasn’t familiar with on the topic, has some interesting stuff. Evidence of a middle eastern paternal origin for Indian Bene Israel Jews. Yemeni Jews cluster with Palestinians and Bedouins. Ashekazim cluster with non-Jewish Europeans, North African Jews cluster together, and some middle eastern Jews cluster with Circassians. Interesting stuff. Seems like results varies by paper

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Anonymous #3 4w

I wonder what’s the historical explanation for the Circassian and Middle Eastern Jewish connection. If I remember right, Circassians are from the Caucuses. Who migrated where when to cause that?

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Anonymous #1 4w

Well the Georgian Jews are also from the Caucasus, so I suspect that’s heavily linked. I notice that non-Jewish Iranians and Iraqis are not included in this dataset, so maybe the proximity to Circassians is just superficial, and they wouldn’t appear as close if those other groups were included.

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Anonymous #3 4w

I found another paper with the Circassians clustered in there. I suspect maybe Circassians keep showing up because there’s a significant population in Israel, so they are an easy inclusion for genetic testing that will mostly be focusing on Israelis. I’m gonna see if I can find stuff including Iranians and Iraqis in the data

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Anonymous #3 4w

Adygei is another name for Circassians btw

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Anonymous #1 4w

Okay so, I’ve read a few more papers. Iraqi, Iranian, and Georgian Jews tend to cluster near other middle eastern populations. They do, however, have a distinct genetic line which indicates they all probably originated from the ancient Babylonian exile groups who never returned to Israel.

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Anonymous #3 4w

I think the inclusion of Circassians but not Iranians etc in the other papers was just because it was genetic surveys focusing on Israel. So they had a big data set of Palestinians, Druze, Bedouins, and Circassians (all of whom live in Israel) but not non-Jewish Iranians or Iraqis.

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Anonymous #3 4w

I appreciate the explanation! Thank you

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Anonymous #1 4w

No problem! Always happy to have the opportunity for a research rabbit hole

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