Anonymous #1 16h

Every single one of

-3

Anonymous OP 16h

So in a hypothetical situation where a 10 year old is raped, you don’t think she should be able to get an abortion?

18

Anonymous #1 16h

I don’t argue hypotheticals

-6

Anonymous OP 16h

So I’ll take that as a no

21

Anonymous #1 16h

Take it however you want. I don’t deal in hypotheticals.

-5

Anonymous OP 16h

Everyone can deal in hypotheticals, the ability to do so came free with your fucking imagination.

24

Anonymous OP 16h

Ok then, lets not talk in hypotheticals. What about the 13 year old girl in Mississippi who lawmakers forced her to carry to term after she was raped? What about the multiple women in Texas who went septic and died because of mid-to-late term pregnancy complications that wouldn’t have taken their lives if they’d been given an abortion? What’s your opinion on these real life cases?

18

Anonymous dataseeker 16h

Abortion is permitted in the case of the life of the mother, are you referring to the case of Naveah Crain?

-4

Anonymous #4 16h

This guy said all my dude

5

Anonymous #1 16h

I don’t know what “all” includes, it’s vague and I’d appreciate naming specific cases. Because for instance if it was Naveah Crain, she died because of severe medical malpractice. She was first misdiagnosed with strep throat while septic, and then was not admitted to the hospital while showing signs of sepsis. It was misreported as being due to an abortion ban.

-3

Anonymous #4 16h

Seems like all means every abortion. No legal abortions ever, no exceptions.

15

Anonymous #1 16h

I doubt that’s what he means. Most pro lifers just don’t consider a D&C done for eg an ectopic pregnancy to be an abortion.

-3

Anonymous #4 16h

She’s one of the women, yes. I am also talking about Porsha Ngumezi, Tierra Walker, Josseli Barnica, Yeniifer Alvarez-Estrada Glick, Amber Thurman, Candi Miller, Taysha Wilkinson-Sobieski, and Ciji Graham. Altogether that is nine women, and these are just the nine I can remember off the dome.

5

Anonymous dataseeker 16h

For Tierra Walker, she was also a victim of malpractice. In spite of her having seizures and being at risk of pre eclampsia, she was told she was not facing an emergency and that there was nothing wrong with her pregnancy.

-3

Anonymous #4 16h

But the problem is that they ARE abortions. Medically, that is what they are called. Banning ALL abortion means banning D&C. That’s why Marlena Stell had to carry her **dead fetus** for nearly 2 weeks.

20

Anonymous #4 16h

Malpractice because of why, exactly? It’s almost like a form of healthcare being denied to a vulnerable group also makes the rest of the group more vulnerable. The fact any of these women died was malpractice.

9

Anonymous dataseeker 16h

All states make exceptions for the life of the mother and miscarriages

-4

Anonymous dataseeker 16h

Claiming that there was nothing wrong with her is pretty blatantly malpractice. Misdiagnosing a woman’s medical conditions is very common in both pro life and pro choice states.

-3

Anonymous #4 16h

We’re talking about this guy’s views, not what current laws are

11

Anonymous OP 16h

Do you support eg a D&C for an ectopic pregnancy where otherwise the mother will die, and removing the dead fetus from the uterus in case of a miscarriage? Just asking for clarification

0

Anonymous #1 16h

And even then, the laws are so vaguely worded that physicians and doctors will refuse to do the treatment because lawmakers can decide the mother’s conditions wasn’t life-threatening enough. This is definitely an issue in states like Louisiana, Idaho, and some others I can’t remember. And THEN there’s Texas, Kentucky, and Tennessee, who require the physician be ARRESTED AND CHARGED first and then plead their defense in trial. Like be so fr

13

Anonymous #4 16h

Well, yes, I agree that is blatant malpractice. Like, yeah, she is a victim of malpractice. The abortion bans certainly helped, because they’re WHY the malpractice came anyway. The treatment for pre-eclampsia is the removal (or birth) of the fetus, and at 20 weeks and not to term, her physicians refused to treat her. Mrs. Walker REPEATEDLY said she did not feel she would survive the pregnancy, and she requested, in numerous occasions, an abortion despite her pregnancy being a WANTED pregnancy.

10

Anonymous dataseeker 16h

The major problem is that at 20 weeks, the texas legislature would treat her treatment as an abortion. And as we’ve established, the procedure in texas is arrest and charge first, and then prove defense in court; a complete and utter betrayal to the rule of “innocent until proven guilty”. I’m begging you to use your brain as to why the malpractice occurred.

10

Anonymous dataseeker 16h

Yea, I agree. They didn’t treat her for anything though because they insisted nothing was wrong with her. An early delivery would also be treatment like you said, and wouldn’t even risk being considered anything close to an abortion under state law, and they didn’t do that either.

-3

Anonymous dataseeker 16h

Hence why it’s medical malpractice. An abortion being legal won’t help you when doctors refuse to diagnose you or recognize your health conditions.

-3

Anonymous #4 15h

They insisted nothing was wrong with her because her treatment was considered an abortion. There is no such thing as an early delivery at 20 weeks. (Refresher; full term is 40 weeks, the threshold to survive is 23 weeks, RARE cases of 22 weeks surviving). So by texas law, an “early birth” at 20 weeks IS an abortion.

8

Anonymous dataseeker 15h

That’s not the procedure in Texas. The procedure in Texas is abortion is permitted within reasonable medical judgement by the physician. No doctor has been charged with performing or attempting to perform in abortion in Texas in spite of the over 50 abortions that happen there annually.

-3

Anonymous dataseeker 15h

Small correction** the earliest known case of surviving is 21-weeks gestation, with less than a 1% survival, 22-weeks is less than 10%. 23-weeks, the threshold, is only a 20%-35% chance to survive.

7

Anonymous dataseeker 15h

No it isn’t because Texas abortion defines a procedure to halt pregnancy without the intent of leading to a live birth. An early delivery would not be an abortion even at 20 weeks, it might pass away after, which is definitely tragic, but that wouldn’t be an abortion. But you could’ve also done an abortion which would be legal since she had pre eclampsia

-3

Anonymous OP 15h

This is not a hypothetical. 51% of reported rape is perpetrated against people ages 0-19.

10

Anonymous OP 14h

Can’t be hypothetical if it actually happens

8

Anonymous #11 14h

If you think something is a human rights violation you should also fight for it to be outlawed as a whole

-3

Anonymous #4 14h

Not when your opinion of a human rights violation impacts another human’s rights.

6

Anonymous #11 14h

All human rights violations impact another humans rights which is why they should all abolished

-3

Anonymous themind._.ofhueyfreeman25 12h

Shut up ruckus

-1

Anonymous #4 12h

Not in all states does this happen the way it should, so no.

2

Anonymous #13 11h

It’s not medical malpractice?

0

Anonymous #4 11h

No

1

Anonymous #13 11h

It’s not medical malpractice to let a woman die of preventable causes when there was a legally allowed treatment that could’ve helped her?

0

Anonymous #4 11h

Because they have to wait until the fetus has no cardiac activity OR the mother’s vitals literally crash, they cannot perform interventions. Not medical malpractice. Literal felony.

4

Anonymous #13 11h

Where does the law say this?

0

Anonymous #4 11h

Arkansas Code § 5-61-303 (Act 387) explicitly excludes actions performed to remove a dead unborn child resulting from a spontaneous abortion/miscarriage. Oklahoma Stat. tit. 63, § 1-745.13 and associated Attorney General guidance similarly exclude the removal of a dead unborn child who died naturally in utero.

1

Anonymous #4 11h

If a fetal heartbeat is still present, the intervention is legally categorized as a felony abortion, even if a miscarriage is clinically inevitable.

1

Anonymous #13 11h

Where does the law say you have to wait for the mother’s vitals to literally crash? We’re discussing life of the mother

0

Anonymous #4 11h

Explicit Exclusions (Act 387): The law explicitly excludes conditions where alternative treatments can sustain life without ending the pregnancy, as well as any psychological or emotional conditions (including risks or threats of self-harm).

1

Anonymous #4 11h

This means unless the vitals are crashing and the mother is in immediate medical need, they won’t touch her.

1

Anonymous #13 11h

That doesn’t mean vitals have to crash. If there’s a condition that can only be treated with an abortion then it’ll be treated with an abortion, that doesn’t mean vitals have to immediately be crashing, it’s up to the doctors good faith medical judgement on whether the woman needs an abortion.

0

Anonymous #4 11h

You’re going strictly by law and not by practice. Doctors will not, for fear of being charged with a felony, give care until the fetus has no cardiac activity or the mother is on the verge of death. It is literally documented. I’m now done arguing with someone who will not do their own research.

1

Anonymous #13 11h

Yes I’m going by the law because if a doctor won’t give life saving treatment permitted by law that’s medical malpractice. That is why the doctors who fail these women (like Dr Andrew Davis, Dr Ali Osman and Dr William Hawkins) are sanctioned by medical boards, as they should be.

0

Anonymous #4 11h

And yet the lawsuits fail because somehow Arkansas and Oklahoma’s laws are too restrictive for doctors to be able to perform medical care. Have the life you deserve.

1

Anonymous #13 11h

No they don’t? Which lawsuit against a doctor has failed?

1

Anonymous #13 11h

I think I deserve a good life for condemning medical malpractice and being against the intentional murder of human beings and I’m surprised you aren’t

1

Anonymous #4 11h

If abortion was murder, I’d agree.

1

Anonymous #4 11h

Any of them brought against the doctors. Because they have no standing.

1

Anonymous #13 10h

I’m not aware of eg the lawsuit against Amber Thurmans doctors failing.

1

Anonymous #13 10h

How is intentionally killing an innocent human being not murder?

1

Anonymous #4 10h

Abortion isn’t killing humans. You would know this if you understood science.

1

Anonymous #13 10h

What do you think it kills?

1

Anonymous #4 10h

A fetus. Now go away pro birther.

1

Anonymous #13 10h

And what species is a human fetus?

0

Anonymous OP 10h

You absolutely should argue hypotheticals. They're crucial to being able to identify your exact beliefs and the assumptions they're based on. If your knowledge is untested then you don't truly know anything

1

Anonymous #4 10h

Without googling, what species is this?

1

Anonymous #13 10h

Pig embryo. Are you saying that an organisms species is determined by whether I am able to identify it? What do you think species is?

1

Anonymous themind._.ofhueyfreeman25 10h

Unless it’s actively being caused by someone like an attacker, a miscarriage isn’t manslaughter. Not all natural deaths are manslaughter. But yes someone causing the miscarriage of a pregnant woman is murder or manslaughter at the very least. That’s the law in pro choice states as well.

0

Anonymous #4 10h

Incorrect. It’s a monkey fetus. Species does not determine life. Science does. Now go away, uneducated.

1

Anonymous #13 10h

And if two humans conceive a fetus, what does science say that fetuses species is? Is it a monkey before it’s born? Are organisms capable of changing their species throughout development?

0

Anonymous #13 10h

I’m assuming you would agree that monkey fetus is a monkey. Just in an early stage of development. So what is a human fetus?

0

Anonymous #4 10h

It is an unborn fetus. Species is not a determinant of life. Again, you need to go back to school. Have the life you deserve.

1

Anonymous #13 10h

So do you think the fetus is dead?

0

Anonymous #13 10h

Because I think all human beings have an inherent right to life. So what kind of organism is a human fetus if it isn’t a human?

0

Anonymous #4 6h

So a woman should be charged with manslaughter if she indirectly causes a miscarriage?

1

Anonymous themind._.ofhueyfreeman25 18m

Shut up ruckus

1