Anonymous blue__wave 3w

I guess words and their definitions is dumb semantics. As #1 stated, in every other part of this world this is not a debate

6

Anonymous #3 3w

Like Hungary has 3 parties and all of them are right of center (some people say Tisza is centrist)

-1

Anonymous OP 3w

Not rlly even bill Clinton who was an extremely moderated democrat wanted universal healthcare. I feel like the only people who give this take are people who think Europe is socialist.

0

Anonymous #3 3w

That is the exact kind of thinking that prevents progress in this country

8

Anonymous OP 3w

How am I preventing progress by stating uncomfortable facts? How does this debate matter on a day to day basis?

0

Anonymous OP 3w

I would love progress but if simply stating facts hinders that, we’re cooked

0

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

Universal healthcare isn’t the only left leaning policy out there. Even then the US version of that would likely just be an expansion of Medicare/Medicaid, a system so heavily lobbied by the medical lobby that it’s just private healthcare with extra steps

6

Anonymous OP 3w

I never said it was the only left wing policy. I just think people overstate where democrats are currently at bc they want to say republicans and democrats are the same.

-1

Anonymous OP 3w

By definition, that’s still universal healthcare. Universal healthcare can be privatized

5

Anonymous OP 3w

And beyond that left and right wing don’t have a universal meaning. If we just mean left wing = more intervention in the economy then I would probably agree that the American left (and the American population in general) isn’t where the European left is.

-1

Ok you realize all other western countries that are comparable to the U.S. are also pro capitalism and even non western countries. This is such a weird distinction. If right wing means you’re ok with capitalism that means every country is right wing.

-1

Anonymous #4 3w

its so funny to see conversations happen without defining what left or right is. "its not left" "yes it is" at least one person is refusing to share what they think left or right are at their core

9

Anonymous #4 3w

What is left or right is understood by most people is relative to the average voter in their country. Leftist want to define it in a novel way bc they want to say republican = democrat. It’s very obvious.

-1

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

I mean I think political scientists that look at parties around the world have a good argument for saying Dems are a centrist party. Right wing might be a stretch

2

Anonymous #3 3w

Sure I agree with that. I feel like what everyone means when they say left vs right is very obvious. I think we’re just doing this as a rhetorical way to say democrats bad.

-1

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

then left doesnt actually mean anything. "im a leftist" with this in mind is like saying i weigh 165 pounds but im speaking to a moonman on the moon where the earth weight system is different. im asking why cant we say theres a political equivalent to mass, which applies regardless of where youre speaking? so you say "left" and it directly is connected to specific values and beliefs?

4

Anonymous #4 3w

The point of these labels is for people to navigate their own political systems. Why would we have a universal understanding when we don’t have universal political systems? Your analogy would be correct if we had to way to access space or the moon.

-1

Anonymous #4 3w

No way*

-1

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

except its not even navigating their own political systems. as you said, its "relative to the average voter" and thats just an entirely subjective term. youre asking everyone to make a subjective definition based on an already subjective term. their opinion informs their reality and not the other way around. its impossible to speak. i ask, hey! lets yknow define the words we use so its not french vs english when you speak to a neighbor

6

Anonymous #4 3w

Everything everyone is saying here is subjective lol. Political systems are dependent on human opinion all of this convo is inherently subjective, which is fine. I did define the word I’m not going to create an objective definition for an inherently subjective thing. This is like saying make an objective definition for the color red. Categories are a human construct.

0

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

I fear you’d have a better case if you didn’t use one of the RGB colors 💀 we have a pretty concrete definition for those

6

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

blue maga back at it again

1

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

dude. are you intentionally dense or is bad faith just written into your dna. "everything everyone is saying is subjective" wow next youre gonna say speaking makes noise. fucking obviously. im asking you to put a foundation on a term so we can discuss from an agreed upon idea instead of randomly throwing shit at the wall blindly. if you refuse, you exist to hear yourself speak. this is not productive.

8

Anonymous #5 3w

fuck I meant blue wave😋

1

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

you are deadass arguing for this right now.

8

Anonymous #4 3w

anti intellectualism is running rampant I stg, I commend you for your service in the fight against it soldier🫡

3

Anonymous #3 3w

Not rlly the categories are still subjective.

0

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

“dominant wavelength of approximately 625–750 nanometers”

2

Anonymous #4 3w

Well don’t describe it as a subjective term then, like I’m the only one doing that. Everyone is giving their subjective understanding, you can say “can you ground it out more” or “can you elaborate”. Don’t be mad at me if you say something silly then I point out that it’s silly.

0

Anonymous #4 3w

No I’m not we can understand what the average voter believes and we can use that along with our current cultural understanding of left and right. Do you think it’s impossible to reasonably estimate what the average American thinks left and right means?

0

Anonymous #5 3w

lol so true.

0

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

I fear they’re talking about you 💀

6

Anonymous #5 3w

True I’m blue maga for pointing out other countries are also capitalistic. Thats what blue maga is.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

the idea of what the average voter is -- is subjective, it depends on who you ask. if youre saying what left and right means depends on the average voter, then youre saying a definition is dependent on an individuals opinion. if thats the case, then it is, by definition, not a definition. nothing is defined.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

was this comment out of sheer stupidity or is bad faith genuinely written into your dna

1

Anonymous #3 3w

I know they’re talking about me lol. It was just a funny thing to say.

-1

Anonymous #4 3w

Fr like you exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you

4

Anonymous #4 3w

What do you think average means? you can poll people’s opinion on a subject and find what the average person think. Again this is inherently subjective. Idk why you keep saying it’s subjective like that’s a bad thing. You can define subjective things what lol? Do you think there’s an objective left and right wing, that independent from human opinion?

0

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

"estimate" thats not defining. you dont have a discussion on what you estimate a word means, especially when we disagree on what the word means. i ask: lets put concrete meaning behind the words we say, and you respond: lets estimate what everything means and hope we understand each other. it doesnt work. please for the love of god just do something in good faith for once in your life and give an encompassing definition of "left"

1

Anonymous #4 3w

How am I being bad faith?

0

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

if you do not understand why "subjective" in a conversation about having a concrete, objective definition is bad, i think im going to harm myself.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

"you can define subjective things" holy lord im going to harm myself

1

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

There isn’t an objective left and right wing, but there’s a consensus among political scientists

1

Anonymous #3 3w

Yes there probably is a subjective consensus among political scientist.

0

Anonymous #4 3w

idk why im saying im gonna harm myself at this point i should know just trying to converse with blue wave is exactly that, harming myself

4

Anonymous #4 3w

Ok sure maybe I’m being super stupid, I would love for you to explain. What is the objective definition of right wing or left wing, meaning independent from human opinion?

0

Anonymous blue__wave 3w

"whats 1+1 blue wave?" "oh well im not really sure, some math people probably will say its 2 but its just a dumb semantics convo" "holy hell whats wrong with this guy man"

1

Anonymous #4 3w

Lmao it’s so dramatic.

0

Anonymous #4 3w

ok lowkey numbers are just a construct though

1

Anonymous #4 3w

You can define the word happy in a subjective way as “a pleasant feeling”. Bc we’re all human we understand what the word happy means bc we experience pleasant feelings. You can define a subjective thing in a subjective way and still understand the word.

1

Anonymous #3 3w

BUT THEY HAVE DEFINITION.

3

Anonymous #3 3w

Yes that category of wave length is subjective that category doesn’t exist outside of human minds. For the 625-750.

1

Anonymous #4 3w

I gave a definition why are acting like I’m saying things don’t have a definitions? Ig I should say people give things definitions .

1