Anonymous #3 8w

Why is that? And which side of it do you fall on?

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Anonymous #1 8w

I fall on the side that wants a just end to the conflict to end, which makes me moderately pro-Palestinian to moderately pro-Israeli depending on who you ask. The reason is that Grim and his co-host Krystal Ball are completely mind raped on this issue and have consistently deliberately distorted the truth in their coverage of it, often to the extent that the truth is the exact opposite of what they claim.

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Anonymous #3 7w

So would you say that them claiming Israel is committing genocide & constant war crimes is a lie?

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Anonymous OP 7w

I would say many of the specific supposed war crimes they report on are gross distortions of the truth, and that there are many other sources reporting on the conflict who are not deliberately lying.

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Anonymous #3 7w

Same for the genocide claims?

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Anonymous OP 7w

That’s hard to make a judgment on, they vary so wildly, and the factual burden for a genocide claim in the current conflict is basically nonexistent. Hamas demands that humanitarian organizations operating in the region call it that or their safety isn’t guaranteed. I’m not sure why that would make the difference for you when news sources who claim Israel is committing a genocide are a dime a dozen.

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Anonymous #3 7w

So you’re stance is you don’t know if it’s a genocide or not & feel that Hamas forces humanitarian organizations to call it a genocide or else & that a lot of the war crime claims against Israel are grossly overstated? I apologize if that’s an inaccurate representation of your views. If I’m wrong please tell me what I’m missing

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Anonymous OP 7w

My stance on whether it’s a genocide is that a positive claim can’t be made either way solely on the basis of humanitarian organizations claims because they are essentially being extorted.

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Anonymous #3 7w

Got it so you’re claim is no one really knows including all the experts because Hamas is forcing all of them to claim it is one or else Hamas will kill them if they don’t

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Anonymous OP 7w

Not necessarily kill them, but either not allow them to operate in Gaza or refuse to guarantee their safety while operating in Gaza. For organizations whose entire purpose is to operate in Gaza it’s a very effective lever, and you can see what happens when people don’t toe the line, I forget his name but there was a UN official in Gaza who said that some casualties during an incident during the Great March of Return were mostly police or fighters and he subsequently left Gaza for his own safety.

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Anonymous #3 7w

I’ll try to find that story, it’s been a while and I don’t remember specifics.

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Anonymous #3 7w

So they are technically all lying about the genocide since they don’t really know at less according to you.

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Anonymous OP 7w

“They” being the humanitarian organizations whose claims are typically the support for most claims that it’s a genocide, yes.

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Anonymous #3 7w

Do you have any evidence that literally every organization or group or scholar that’s supposed to be an expert on this is being more or less held for ransom & forced to lie?

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Anonymous OP 7w

Just many examples like the one I’ve already mentioned. Incentive structures don’t lie. And to reiterate, none of this is particularly relevant to the original claim that Ryan Grim and Krystal Ball are mind raped on Israel and consistently lie.

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Anonymous #3 7w

I mean it’s kinda irrelevant because now you’re saying everyone who’s called it genocide regardless of background is technically lying & if all the experts & people’s job it is to monitor these things are lying that would be a big deal. That’s like saying all the doctors are lying about Covid idk I think it’s important to understand why every doctor is lying & can’t be trusted

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Anonymous OP 7w

Btw, it could even be the case that these NGOs and aid organizations believe they are being truthful with the best data available to them, but the only real data available to anyone is Hamas’s data, which even the Gaza Health Ministry stopped using after it was very obviously just being cooked. Between this and so many debunked stories like the snipers deliberately targeting children it’s important to keep in mind that nobody actually knows anything about what’s going on on the ground…

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Anonymous #3 7w

Wait so all the western doctors who come home are also lying now?

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Anonymous #3 7w

and furthermore many, many people and orgs are heavily incentivized to lie for a variety of reasons.

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Anonymous #3 7w

So all the western doctors, humanitarian organizations, genocide schoolers are at best being strong armed or misled by Hamas & at worse lying out of malice towards Israel from the sounds of your claims

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Anonymous OP 7w

It was never “all the western doctors” who made that claim, it was one guy who didn’t say anything about an excess of young children as trauma patients until his last day in Gaza he said he saw two children with gunshot wounds. He comes home and his story keeps growing with the telling until he’s claiming that he was seeing kids with headshots every day, and the numbers he’s claiming aren’t reflected in the demographics of the hospital’s patients, which are public and basically consistent…

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Anonymous #3 7w

… with the overall casualty rate. The guy’s just a liar and his story has wings.

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Anonymous #3 7w

I mean it’s definitely been more then one doctor that’s said the IDF is snipping kids

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Anonymous OP 7w

But I get what you’re saying everyone is probably wrong as far as the “bad” things Israel is doing

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Anonymous OP 7w

The overall casualty rate? I’m confused how do you know the overall casualty rate??

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Anonymous OP 7w

I believe the claim originates with an orthopedic surgeon named Mark Perlmutter and while other physicians have signed the open letters where the claims are contained, I don’t think there are any other original claims.

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Anonymous OP 7w

I mean the demographic breakdown of casualties, which is more or less public if all you’re looking for is men/women/children.

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Anonymous #3 7w

What but I thought the numbers are cooked by Hamas so it makes no sense

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Anonymous OP 7w

So tons of western doctors are lying for Mark. I've seen interviews of other doctors. So you're saying they all got their notes from Mark & then lied in interviews as well as signing off on a letter to protect Mark & is lie. Sounds like literally everyone is lying by against Israel tor various reasons.

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If they’re all telling the truth, why weren’t they telling the truth while they were in Gaza? Why don’t hospital numbers jive with their stories?

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Anonymous OP 7w

Crazy how deep the anti Israel conspiracy runs. Why do you think literally everyone is willing to throw away they’re credibility to lie about Israel?

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Anonymous OP 7w

You only lose credibility if you get caught. Israel’s not going to exhume the bodies to ask them where the sniper shots are.

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Anonymous #3 7w

So Israel is too trusting is the real problem & because of that they’re being taken advantage of & smeared?

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Anonymous #3 7w

And even if they did, again, Perlmutter’s claim is not that he saw children with headshots, I could absolutely believe that some random IDF kids occasionally headshot Palestinian kids. The claim is that the number of kids he saw is so overwhelming that it indicates Israel is deliberately targeting pre-teen children with headshots (which marksmen don’t aim for.) I’m sorry, if you believe Perlmutter you’re regarded and you actually should watch Grim.

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Anonymous #3 7w

You’re saying one or two IDF soldiers could be bad eggs but there’s no way a large proportion of them would kill innocent kids or people on purpose which is the only way to explain the claim & all the western doctors on the ground & doing interviews have to be lying because again the IDF would never do that

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Anonymous #2 7w

Hasn’t their production been horrible since the war anyway?

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Anonymous #3 7w

I can personally attest to seeing several videos of literally beheaded babies towards the start of the conflict. Don’t say AI, video Gen was not good enough at this point in time. Regardless of if you believe this specific person’s story, there’s endless video out there of these atrocities. Horrible as they are, you should see them so you stop making claims like this. Twitter, liveleak ripoffs.

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Anonymous #4 7w

lol you doing the beheaded babies meme from the other direction

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Anonymous #3 7w

Hardly a meme, your negligence isn’t really humorous.

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Anonymous #4 7w

The degree to which Palestinian advocates are just willing to fucking lie is consistent with every Islamophobe’s idea of taqiyya.

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Anonymous #3 7w

I’d link the videos if they were still up. The fact of my comment has nothing to do with Islam or ideology.

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Anonymous #4 7w

God will judge you.

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Anonymous #3 7w

I don’t worship the Abrahamic god and I do not intend to, so he was probably gonna do that anyway. Not concerned.

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