Anonymous #1 1d

Not really

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Anonymous #2 1d

Genocide, ethnonationalism, and colonialism

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Anonymous #3 1d

Idk maybe settler colonialism, ethnonationalism, slavery and genocide??

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Anonymous OP 1d

So first off let’s talk modern day, or else you could put all the flags of the world up there. Also, give some specific examples

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Anonymous #3 1d

2/4 of the 4 flags also don’t exist in present day 🤔 the foundation of a country never goes away until it’s completely dismantled. We still do all these things, just in different ways

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Anonymous OP 1d

Yeah they were so bad we wiped em out. Funny how we’re still here. Still no specifics

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Anonymous #3 1d

Yeah and the other two need to be dismantled and decolonized. Did you skip history class? Why do I need to spell out what we all know? You’re denying that this country was founded on all that?

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Anonymous OP 1d

I don’t believe your claim that the foundations never go away. Of course I know how this country started. That doesn’t make it bad today. Tell me how we’re just as bad today as 1930s nazi germany

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Anonymous #3 1d

We enslaved and trafficked human beings through the transatlantic slave trade, we genocided and stole land from the indigenous and the country was literally founded on race and the concept of a white Christian nation. What else do you want me to say

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Anonymous #3 1d

You asked for specifics before I even mentioned the foundation?

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Anonymous #3 1d

Idk we can start with the multi million death toll we’ve inflicted through imperialism across the world? Or not allowing other countries to have democracy? Or the fact that slavery is still legal? And we still have racial and economic underclasses? Our freedoms are stripped more and more everyday?

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Anonymous OP 1d

So let me get this straight. Most European countries should be dismantled simply bc they were founded by and for white Christians? Also, all land is stolen land. I don’t think the sins of our fathers means we should destroy our country today. Yeah and I asked for modern day specifics🤦‍♀️

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Anonymous OP 1d

Once again, how is this nearly as bad as the others?

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Anonymous #3 1d

Were most European countries founded on settler colonialism? No… so what are you talking about 😭 what is there to dismantle. They weren’t founded FOR those things, they’ve existed and evolved as the neighboring regions existed and evolved. All land is stolen? Wtf are you talking about, again

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Anonymous #3 1d

There you go I listed your modern day examples…. I forgot a big one. ice and the targeting of immigrants

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Anonymous OP 1d

I believe that similarities are important to acknowledge, but that it is damagingly reductionist to reduce all nuance by saying they are “truly the same.” All four of these states have a history of expansionist ethnonationalism tied to genocide and ethnic cleansing. But they are different in fundamental ways. The United States (and if we are being honest Israel) were founded on (unequally applied) democratic principles which are fundamentally different from Nazi germany.

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Anonymous #1 1d

In the United States said democratic principles began to expand so much that it began to override the slave system which drove its economy, and this caused the civil war in which the confederacy was defeated (but white supremacy would later re-assert itself in the failure of reconstruction)

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Anonymous #1 1d

They are truly the same in all the ways that actually matter tho… like those are all very relevant details 😭 everything is connected and history repeats itself all the time And the US and Israel were absolutely NOT founded on democratic principles. They were founded on the protection of wealth and capitalism for a select few

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Anonymous #1 1d

Is it correct to criticize the U.S. government? Obviously. Is it important to compare manifest destiny to Lebensraum to Zionism? Also yes, I do that often. But the governments and ideologies of these states are more complex to be improperly portrayed as “the same.” The founding of American democracy was white supremacist and supremely flawed, but it did usher in the age of revolution and our modern era of Republican democracy.

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Anonymous #1 1d

And if I am to go on a bit of a nerd rant. I think Nazi Germany is an evocative comparison, particularly when comparing modern day right wing rhetoric towards immigrants. But I think if we are comparing the origins and policies of the USA and Israel then other settler colonial states like Rhodesia and apartheid South Africa are a more apt analogue.

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Anonymous OP 1d

That was democratic principles in those days. The origin of liberal democracy, generally speaking, was property and voting rights for the wealthy bourgeois. That was the case in revolutionary France, in Latin America, and was the origin point of the Haitian revolution too. These principles were later expanded to universal suffrage. But it’s undeniable that the age of revolution was a major historic shift away from monarchical governance and towards representative democracy.

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Anonymous #1 1d

One can criticize the systems of our country and its history without being improperly reductive.

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Anonymous #1 1d

And the left two as well

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Anonymous blue__wave 23h

Settler colonialism and genocide has always been bad. Also Nazi Germany was inspired by America and after WW2 we took a bunch of Nazis in? We’re not anti nazi whatsoever

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Anonymous OP 23h

It’s always been bad by today’s standards people in the past didn’t have todays moral standards. Was the Soviet union pro Nazis bc they took Nazis in?

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Anonymous blue__wave 23h

Took Nazis in? Nah they’re literally the reason why we aren’t all run by Nazis, they defeated them Bruh ppl knew back then that genocide is bad

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Anonymous OP 23h

They did take Nazis is in are you unaware this?

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Anonymous OP 23h

It was Operation Osoaviakhim

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Anonymous OP 23h

Do you think Romans “knew” slavery was bad lol? You actually believe that people in the past had today’s moral standards? Did the Aztecs know sacrificing people was bad but they were just like fuck it our society is gonna be a bad society.

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Anonymous blue__wave 23h

They were taken as war reparations. America took Nazis in bc they don’t see anything wrong with what they did to Jews

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Anonymous blue__wave 23h

Bruh we’re talking about the 18th century, not Roman times. Ppl def knew back then that stealing, killing and slavery was wrong. Indigenous Americans and slaves certainly did!

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Anonymous OP 23h

Oh so when the people you like did it, it’s suddenly different. The Soviet Union was 100% anti semitic btw look up the Doctors' plot.

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Anonymous OP 23h

Ok exactly so moral standard do change I’m glad you admit that. People were pro slavery obviously into the civil war, do those people think they themselves were evil lol?

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