
yall have been arguing with ai this entire time btw. Sometimes their messages are normal but as soon as they pull out āits not ____, its ____ā and āheres where it actually gets graduate level:ā and āIāll let that speak for itselfā its SO ai. ai LOVES these speech patterns. They 100% are feeding these comments to chat gpt or claude (which is probably why they had a 14 hr old screenshot) and cannot form an argument on their own and I find that incredibly funny.
"The Bible is scientifically proven" is very misleading, but "science isn't scientifically proven" is entirely true. Saying science is scientifically proven is the same as religion using circular authority. Science can measure things like carbon half-life to estimate ages, but the interpretive and thus inherently subjective substance of ancient texts can never be objectively proven. There's an impasse that most people don't even realize exists.
"science" would be referring to the general work and studies and results, whether that be geology (tectonics or paleoclimatology) or biology (anatomy and psychology) "scientifically proven" would be using the scientific method to get the same measured result (like half lives) when repeated however many times "science" is not a monolith, but is predicated on measurements and repeatability. what is known is proven fact, what is believed until proven otherwise (aka improved) is best estimate.
Okay sweetie, let's go slow. You said science is "predicated on measurements and repeatability." Great! Now: what experiment proved that measurement and repeatability give you truth? Go ahead, I'll wait. There isn't one. You can't use the method to prove the method without assuming the method. That's circular. That's literally the thing you'd mock a Christian for doing with the Bible.
A measurement tells you what happened. It doesn't tell you it'll happen again. Assuming the future will match the past is called induction, and Hume showed in the 1700s that you can't justify it without... using induction. Carbon decayed at that rate every time we checked? Cool. That's data. "Therefore nature is uniform forever" is an assumption science stands on, not a result it produced.
Vocab time, since you love that word: science doesn't "prove" things. Proof is for math and logic. Science corroborates and falsifies. You actually said this yourself: "what is believed until proven otherwise (aka improved) is best estimate." Congrats, that's the argument you're mad at. Every theory is provisional. Newton was "proven fact" until Einstein. If your position needs the word "proven" to survive, you got your epistemology from the same app you're dunking on.
And I'll use small words just to be extra clear for you. Even if science proved itself (it can't), it still couldn't measure meaning. Half-life tells you how old a scroll is, not whether what's written on it is true or what it means. That's the impasse you skipped right past. You called the TikToker a "heinous oversimplification" with a "limited thought process," then defended a take a 7th grade teacher would mark incomplete. Self-report noted. š
idek if youre being serious with all this because holy jesus christ man. you manage to be condescending while talking in such bad faith, arguing semantics when you know damn well what i meant, ripping apart pieces of what i said and ignoring others to form an argument that stands on air, and then babbling about random shit all in one comment, but then do that for four comments!
i could choose to sit here and argue every little piece of smarmy sniveling shit you wrote, but id be here breaking down each sentence you wrote and all id get in return after all that time is some snarky comment written with the burning condescension of some twerp that must defend a tiktok comment thats probably written by like a 14 year old that doesnt have an internal monologue
Funny thing about condescension: you opened by calling the TikToker's take a "heinous oversimplification" from a "very limited thought process," then guessed they're a 14 year old with no internal monologue. That's condescending too. The difference is that mine came with arguments. Yours came with "twerp," "sniveling," and "idiot." We're both being smug. Only one of us is also being coherent.
Now for your arguments, all zero of them. "Idiot" is an ad hominem; insulting the speaker doesn't touch the claim. "I could refute it but won't" isn't a refutation, it's a forfeit. And "arguing semantics"? The whole debate is about what "proven" means. Semantics IS the topic. You can't make a definitional claim and then cry foul when someone checks the definition.
And the point still stands. A measurement is objective: anyone can repeat it. What a text means, or whether it's sacred, isn't measurable. That's interpretation, and interpretation is subjective by nature. Carbon dating can tell you how old a scroll is. It can't tell you whether God inspired it. No amount of data closes that gap, and no amount of calling me names does either.
And since you brought up "bad faith": good faith means engaging with what someone actually said. I quoted your own words back to you, including the "best estimate" line that agrees with me. You quoted nothing of mine, answered nothing, and said you could refute it all but won't. If I misread you, one sentence clarifying fixes that. Instead you said I "know damn well" and bailed. Dodging every point while accusing me of dodging? That's what bad faith actually looks like.
Bro. There is conversation that is relevant in academic circles- the one you are trying to have. And then there is good scientific communication with the public; what this comment needs to be met with. While youāre totally right, youāre failing to read the room. Look up Carolyn Beetozzi (this yearās Nobel prize in chemistry) explaining her discovery to 3 different grade levels. The PhD level explanation would baffle a five year old (and most people), and drive them away from science.
I don't give a fuck about the room. I'm against scientism and bioessentialism because they function exactly like orthodox religion. "Only falsifiable information is useful" is the axiom people hide behind when they pathologize trans people and deny our experience. That's not science, it's dogma with a lab coat on. This isn't about empirical facts. It's a moral choice. And deciding subjectivity isn't real is just that: a choice.
"You're right, but don't say it here because it undermines the authority of science" is scientism in its purest form. It's the same move as "your reading of the Bible isn't welcome because it threatens the Church." Orthodoxy doesn't care if you're right. It cares if you obey. I'm not dumbing down my existence so people can keep worshipping a method like it's a god.
wow a whole lot of drivel that exactly proves what i said for why i dont want to argue with some snot nosed insufferable twit. you deadass come in here saying "i dont care about the room" and follow it up by trying to reframe who is speaking in good faith by again chopping up what i say and ignoring other parts that were entirely fundamental to what i was talking about, but what does that matter! you have a tiktok comment with 0 seconds of thought behind it to defend with your life!
actually hold on i was beginning to ignore what you wrote, but it turns out you were doing that first! idk whats up with you mentally bc it seems like youre defending your anonymous yikyaker honor with your life. ill just put a screenshot bc im not gonna try to quote it. i said i wasnt going to argue. legitimately said it 12 hours ago. but you ignore it bc why wouldnt you. you LOOOOVE ignoring 90% of what i say and then hammering on 5% and touching on the other 5%
screenshots don't expire lol. and "just having fun" is what people say once they realize they can't answer. you've written like 15 comments about not arguing. so for the 4th time: what experiment proved the scientific method is reliable without already assuming it's reliable? you canāt objectively claim your measurement system is proven and then not prove it.
screenshots dont expire was not the point, something you apparently cant grasp unless its outright stated. the point was why the fuck are you just screenshotting comments and then holding them. you making a scrapbook? and again, if you cant differentiate me making fun of you for 15 comments because youre intolerable and making it readily apparent you either cant or have no interest in reading subtext that everyone else can understand while also somehow manufacturing your own
im not arguing that point man. i dont know if your situation is that you cant read and comprehend so you take a screenshot and throw it into claude or whatever so you can get your redditor honor as an imbecile who argues something not said nor remotely implied. whatever is wrong with you is concerning but also your persistence with it is amusing and you double, triple, quadruple, quintuple and so on double down on it makes it borderline hysterical so yes i have fun with it
This is not "grad school level philosophy" holy crap š you think you're a genius, don't you? Saying "science is scientifically proven" is a completely meaningless sentence, as is "science isn't scientifically proven." "Science" is just a way of knowing things. Now, when using the scientific method, we say in many cases you can't "prove" something in science, only disprove things. We have theories and lass because they help describe and predict the universe around us.
lol you opened this thread with "tell me you didn't pay attention in middle school science." you're not exactly the condescension police. and I never denied being condescending, I literally said we both were. the point is #1 called me condescending while doing the exact same thing. that's not deflection, that's pointing out hypocrisy. still waiting on anyone to answer the actual question btw
you literally just said science can't "prove" things, only disprove them. that's my whole point, thanks for agreeing. and here's where it actually gets graduate level: science can map every neuron in your brain and still never measure what it's like to be you. that's the hard problem of consciousness. the most real thing you know is the one thing science can't touch.
see, this is an actual conversation. "you can't prove it'll be true in every scenario" is literally the problem of induction, which is my point. and "it works so it's essentially true" is pragmatism, a philosophical position, not a scientific result. I'm not saying science is useless. I'm saying its foundations are philosophy, and people who treat it like a religion forget that.
You didn't seem to understand the point of my comment. I was basically saying just because we can't "prove" things in science, that doesn't mean it's useless. It is still used to describe and predict (as I said) natural phenomena. As long as a theory or law continues to describe things accurately, it is as good as true/"proven." Also, why are you trying to prove that you're smart? Nobody here knows who you are. It doesn't matter. Finally, I'm aware of the "problem of other minds," but I don't-
lmfaoooo this is why i came back, not to argue some point that youre gonna yabble on about incessantly and horrendously. i cant help but laugh at the absurdity of what you say. you hold onto a 14 hour screenshot, have been back and forth with people damn near the entire time (17h, 14h, 6h, 1/2h, now) and then say that i have been here the whole time (17h, 14h, now)
I understand exactly what your point is. Thatās how I refuted it. I never said science is useless. All I said is that it cannot prove itself. I care because āscience is truthā is how my existence as a trans person has even been able to come under attack by random strangers, because scientism is the culture of modernity.
you confused the hard problem of consciousness with the problem of other minds. different problems. other minds is about whether anyone else is conscious. the hard problem is that science still can't explain why experience exists at all, even your own. and you say I have no point, but you agreed with it twice, then made an "only a man could be this pompous" joke about a trans person. that's not progressive, that's bigotry with better vocab.
oh my god bruh im pointing out my own mistake which was made while not knowing youre trans because you have no obligation to say that of yourself but randomly did to #9 when i guess they ticked you off so but never to me. you are a basket of unknowables and good lord i dont know how you came to the conclusion that i was justifying myself. what do you even think i was justifying??
Seriously what the fuck is your problem? I have no obligation to correct every time you misgender me but you obviously believe in bioessentialism which is exactly the thing Iāve been arguing against this entire time because I am against bioessentialism no matter what room it happens in
I DONT BELIEVE IN BIOESSENTIALISM WHY ARE YOU CREATING SUBTEXT THATS NOT THERE AGAIN AND IGNORING WHAT IS the point was that you attack #9 for apologizing, attack me for pointing out my own mistake, and state that we basically should have just known you were trans for that one comment #9 made even though you did not really say anything. you are such a mixed bag of unknowable accusatory chaos i cant believe people coexist with you