Anonymous #1 2w

What do you hate about it?

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

How it doesn’t recognize basic human necessities as inherent rights to have

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Anonymous #1 2w

That’s why you have government to redistribute wealth.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

Redistribution of wealth has to be done outside of the system of capitalism, it’s not an inherent trait it carries. We as a people had to address that problem, capitalism didn’t do it for us.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Yeah I agree but capitalism isn’t antithetical to those systems that’s why we can have the system we currently have.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I’m not saying it’s not. I’m explaining why I hate it. The economic system itself doesn’t allot for food and necessities to be considered a human right.

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Anonymous #1 2w

I think it does in a way bc it creates the wealth the government then uses to make sure people’s needs are met.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

No it doesn’t lmao. The concept of capitalism, alone, does not do that. WE have to accommodate for that because the economic system doesn’t exclude that from its interest in gaining capital. You’re conflating two things and I’m telling you directly I’m only referring to capitalism

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Anonymous #1 2w

You don’t think capitalism creates wealth? Yes they work hand in hand that’s how’s systems usually work you don’t have system that does everything.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

Creating wealth isn’t recognizing human necessities as inherent rights. Genuinely what do you think I’m trying to say? Seriously what do you think my point is?

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Anonymous #1 2w

I already addressed your point you just randomly said no. I’m saying that capitalism is part of providing for those inherent rights bc it creates the wealth that the government then uses to ensure them.

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Anonymous #1 2w

You keep forcing this weird assumption in the conversation that an economic system is bad bc in a vacuum it doesn’t ensure rights.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Like technically we make this argument about a lot of things like democratic institutions. Democratic institutions don’t inherently by themselves ensure those rights. That’s why we have multiple systems working together.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

What do you think MY point is and why I said no

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Anonymous #1 2w

I think your point is capitalism by itself doesn’t necessarily provide some human rights.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

My point is that the system, capitalism, inherently doesn’t view human necessities as rights.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Yeah I didn’t how I didn’t just meaningfully engage with your point. Every system is lacking that’s usually why we have multiple systems in society.

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Anonymous #1 2w

This is like saying you don’t like the police bc they don’t put out fires. idk why you’re acting like the issue is I’m not understanding your point.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I gave you a reason why I don’t like it. And now you’re acting as if this is some like debate to discuss flaws and nuances that somehow invalidate my original point lmao. I’m telling you and you’re agreeing, that capitalism lacks the inherent implication to view human necessities as free rights.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

Because Im not arguing whether or not sub systems can accommodate for what capitalism doesn’t cover. Redistribution of wealth does not affect my point that human necessities are not seen by capitalism, as free necessities.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Yeah I can evaluate your reasons for disliking a thing that’s kinda the point of the post to make a statement about how people evaluate capitalism. Btw this has nothing to do with not understanding your point.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Yeah and the fire department doesn’t affect my point that police don’t see fires that’s not a good reason to dislike the police.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

Yeah, I’m saying This thing doesn’t do what I want it to which is why I hate it And your response is but these other things do those things, so your opinion is invalidated because of that fact.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

You asked why I hate it. I gave you a reason. You not liking the reason doesn’t excuse the fact that I hate it for that reason, a reason that you agreed with me on when it comes to its failings

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Anonymous #1 2w

I mean if we’re arguing at this point you can’t evaluate other people’s opinions lol. I never said I dislike your opinion I actually like it bc I think it’s a good example of what I was talking about originally. My point is it’s not a good reason.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

We aren’t arguing that. Good reason according to what objective metric lmao?

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Anonymous #1 2w

You don’t need an objective metric you can disagree on subjective things for rational reasons. Yes I’m arguing that I know your in whatever weird cope mode.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

you’re** The metric you’re using then is arbitrary lol. Your perception of it being a “bad” reason is contingent on the idea that you include other external systems. Which holds no bearing on the one thing I’m saying lol. I hate capitalism for that reason, regardless of whether or not other external systems make up for that reason. Why do you think I should like capitalism?

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Anonymous #1 2w

Lmao the grammar correction. Yes how does that make it arbitrary? What’s actually arbitrary is you fitting in the assumption that a specific system has to do a specific thing that it wasn’t designed to do. No I’m not moving on bc you’re being bad faith and you want to squirm out. Notice how much we’ve shifted the goal post? first it was I didn’t understand your point, then we moved to I need an objective metric to disagree with something subjective, now it’s apparently arbitrary?

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Anonymous #1 2w

Like it’s very obvious you just haven’t thought the point through, which is fine. I’ll remind you bc you’re purposefully being selective with what you respond to, you can literally levy this criticism at any system.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I’m not moving on lol. All of those things are true. I was confused why you thought external systems mattered so I asked you to repeat my point in case you didn’t understand. Then yeah, when I gave you my reason and you said no, I wanted to know what objective metric I was wrong by. And if there’s no objective logical metric then yeah it’s an arbitrary set of views being applied lol. You didn’t make a a point here I stand by what I’ve said

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

Yes I have. You’re also crying about me being selective as if you didn’t just avoid answering a question I asked lmao. No you can’t. Some economic systems or social systems include viewing food and human necessities as inherently valuable and free things. I’m telling you I hate capitalism for the reason I listed above, I’m not talking about capitalism in congruence with other systems. Those other systems don’t have any impact on my view of capitalism

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

“Why don’t you like cars?” “they only have 4 seats and I want 10” “well planes have 10 so your argument is invalid”

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I said I hate this one thing, you said “what about these other things” That’s the whole argument you’re making, whether you admit that or not lmao

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Anonymous #1 2w

You have to realize how bad faith you’re being. You know there’s no objective metric to why genocide is bad. That’s a subjective thing unless if you think morality is objective. People with the same moral framework can still rationally work through something being subjectively wrong.

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Anonymous #1 2w

That doesn’t even make sense if you didn’t get my point why would you have me repeat your point. The cope is insane. You just tried to move on lmao. I never seen someone try this hard to squirm out of a very basic thing.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

Good thing we aren’t talking about genocide then huh lmao. And you haven’t provided any rationale besides “here’s other things that aren’t this thing that do what you want them to do”

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I didn’t think you understood MY point. Keep up lmaoo You’re still not answering. Stop trying to avoid it, it won’t work lol.

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Anonymous #1 2w

I’m not being selective I explained why I’m not answering your question bc I’m not gonna let squirm to another point. We can talk about other economic systems if we can through this super simple point. Do you think hating the police department bc they don’t put out fires is a good reason to hate the police?

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

So you’re refusing to engage in any part of the conversation that offends you? That’s terribly bad faith. Once you answer I’ll answer. It’s not the end of the world if you answer why you want me to like the only thing we’re talking about

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Anonymous #1 2w

Your analogy doesn’t work bc planes would have to be adding 6 more seats to the car. You can both engage in capitalism and in some form of redistributing wealth at the same time. A better analogy would be I don’t like road vehicles bc they don’t have ten seats. ok what about a bus?

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Anonymous #1 2w

What point am I not answering?

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Anonymous #1 2w

What question do you want me to answer? stop projecting you being ass mad onto me lol.

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Anonymous #1 2w

“Good thing we aren’t talking about genocide” so you agree we can have rational disagreement on subject things?

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Anonymous #1 2w

I didn’t get your point? I thought you just said you didn’t get mine lmao. You have to pick an argument here.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

That’s the whole issue. We aren’t talking about planes. We’re talking about how this ONE thing is bad because it lacks these specific features. Your entire argument is “if we add things to the thing you hate, it invalidates your position” No it doesn’t. I acknowledge that we have other systems to work with. That doesn’t impact how I think capitalism is terrible because it lacks these specific characteristics.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

Me offending you doesn’t matter, you’re struggling to see a question mark? Do you need me to repeat it then?

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Anonymous #1 2w

Yes bc we don’t live in a vacuum. Why would we be considering things in a vacuum? again this like you saying you hate police bc they don’t put out fires.

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Anonymous #1 2w

No I see the question mark that’s why I responded to the question. I’m just not gonna move to another point until you actually engage. So you agree we can rationally be critical of subjective points?

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

It doesn’t matter if we live in vacuum or not lmao. You can have opinions on things while acknowledging that other things make up for it. And that still logically does not have to impact your opinion of those things. It’s completely logical to separate moral values from the overall system efficiency.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I’ve only been engaging. You’re the only one out of the two of us who tried to deflect by talking about me asking you to repeat my point. I asked why you WANT me to like capitalism. Don’t see an answer, if you did then just repeat it cause I didn’t see it.

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Anonymous #1 2w

I agree you can, that’s a bad reason to hate a thing. It does logically have to wdym? Do you think it’s a good reason to hate police bc they don’t put out fires?

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

It’s a bad reason to hate something for a flaw you acknowledge exists within it?

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Anonymous #1 2w

Like how you deflected by having me repeat your point. The projection in this convo is so funny. What I mean is if you have a question about the point we’re on right now I’ll answer, but if you’re talking about the “why I like capitalism” point. No I’m not gonna answer that until you actually engage.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Yeah I already saw that point and responded idk why you would be asking me if I missed it? That’s why I was asking to see if there was another question bc I already responded to that one.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

That was me making sure you weren’t misrepresenting my point on accident. Getting clarification on MY point isn’t a deflection. You keep crying about me not engaging as I sit here and engage lmao.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

We’re starting to talk over each other. Hold on Is it a bad reason to hate something for a flaw you acknowledge exists within it?

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Anonymous #1 2w

Bc it’s not a flaw in the system bc the system isn’t meant to solve it, that’s why we have other systems. You’re allergic to answering this question so I’ll keep asking. Do you think it’s a good reason to hate police bc they don’t put out fires?

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Anonymous #1 2w

Also you agree we don’t need objective metrics for subjective things. Just like we wouldn’t need an objective metric for why genocide it bad. You knowingly gave a bad faith answer to that point.

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Anonymous #1 2w

It is deflection when you ask for the clarification bc you didn’t understand my point. You’re not engaging your being bad faith you selectively answer question. I’ve asked the same question about three times at this point.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

And that’s why I hate it! I hate that we operate under an economic system that doesn’t view that as an inherent right. Other systems making up for that does not impact how I think I hate capitalism for that reason when other economic systems DO include human necessities as inherent rights. It not even addressing human necessities is the issue. Thank you for admitting that! Until you answer mine I won’t answer yours, since you’re so intent on being bad faith.

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Anonymous #1 2w

It’s not a flaw, a flaw would be a thing a system is meant to solve that it doesn’t solve.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

food, water, shelter, healthcare, basic security are treated as rights rather than market goods in OTHER economic systems. The system assumes needs will be met through participation in markets. Capitalist societies add welfare systems to patch this gap. but those are corrections to capitalism, not its core principle. I hate Capitalism because it does not prioritize needs to live as rights; it prioritizes economic efficiency and growth.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

You’re** It’s a deflection. I thought you wanted me to stay on topic.

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Anonymous #1 2w

I know that’s why you hate it we both understand each others claim stop repeating yourself like it’s a point lol. Yeah I have a point about other economic systems if we’ll ever get to it. if you want to say other economic systems are more efficient at providing for people’s needs that’s an actual argument. Saying a thing is bad bc the thing doesn’t do a thing it isn’t used for isn’t a good argument.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Sure I’ll answer your question but I expect you to actually engage with both mine is that fair?

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I hold the moral belief that no human being should be denied the means to live regardless of wealth, so rejecting a system that ties survival to purchasing power is a coherent and principled stance. Regardless of whether or not you arbitrarily decide it’s not. The objection I’m making does not depend on whether capitalism is efficient, innovative, or historically successful; it rests solely on the value judgment that human life should not be subject to market logic.

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Anonymous #1 2w

What have I said that’s a deflection? You’ve literally asked me to repeat your point bc you didn’t understand my point, I like how that’s a coherent thing to ask for but I’m deflecting.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I thought you weren’t answering because it was a deflection? Now you’re saying you’ll engage in this supposed deflection if I engage in yours?

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Anonymous #1 2w

Yes it is a deflection I’m fine with answering your question though if it means you’ll actually engage with mine that would make it not a deflection.

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Anonymous #1 2w

I feel like your internet is to deflect but if I can answer yours and that means you’ll engage with my two question then that wouldn’t be a deflection.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Yes I also agree with that moral beliefs again not our disagreement. It’s not when we have other systems for the reasons I already laid out. It’s not arbitrary we’ve already been over that too we can get back to that point of why it’s not arbitrary if you like. I haven’t made any point about that lol we’re rlly just rambling.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I’m going to break this down one more time very quickly, and tell me where YOUR disconnect is. If this is just us rambling then you agree with me. I hate capitalism because I view food as an inherent rights rather than a market goods. Capitalism does not do that. I hate it because it lacks those core principles which disagree with my personal moral beliefs. I acknowledge other systems do have those principles, those other systems are not what we are talking about.

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Anonymous #1 2w

which in turns disagree**

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Anonymous #1 2w

Ok this can be solved with a single question I feel like. Is it a good reason to hate police bc they don’t put out fires, like a fire department does?

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I don’t view that as a good representation of my position, the question is a non sequitur to me. If after this small back and forth we still haven’t made any progress. I will happily answer. I’m not squirming, not running, that question is truly not relevant to the discussion I’m attempting to engage in. I broke down my position point by point, where do you disagree with it?

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Anonymous #1 2w

No stop, explain why the question is an unfair question or isn’t analogous.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

Stop trying to get you to explain where your disconnect is in relation to my position? lmao. Stop attempting to see what specific portion of my position, the topic, you disagree with is?

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Anonymous #1 2w

This is my disconnect if you want me to rephrase it I can.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Btw when you gave me an analogy I was able to explain why it wasn’t analogous idk why you can’t do the same.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

Sure try that.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I can. I’m just trying to stay on topic. Like you asked.

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Anonymous #1 2w

This is 100% on topic, ok if system A (democracy) doesn’t solve for B (individual rights, for example slavery) is democracy a bad system ?

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I’m not even trying to be difficult. The question still isn’t relevant to my point. I’m asking you to explain the specific portion of my position that you disagree with. I don’t see how it’s possible for you and I to not understand the second that happens. By the way, you said you agree with that moral belief, capitalism doesn’t include that moral principle in its definition. We can agree then it’s not logically irrational to dislike it for that reason.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Yeah McDonald’s doesn’t have that moral belief in the principles of McDonalds. I don’t think that would be a good reason to dislike McDonald’s. Ok can you at least admit that it’s understandable from my perspective why you’re being bad faith because 1. You won’t answers this question and 2. You’re not articulating why you’re not answering or how it’s not “relevant”. If you want you can answer the question and I can show you how’s it’s relevant.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

Feasibly, mcdonald’s principles don’t impact the majority of my finances and how me and others go about obtaining resources necessary for survival. No, I offered to answer once we kind of got this figured out. I’m staying on topic by only talking about this, you kept calling anything that slightly varied from it earlier, a deflection. So this is me stopping that accusatory behavior before it starts.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I hold the principle that an economic system should include those things Capitalism does not hold those things in its core principle. Thus, I hate capitalism for that reason. Other systems making accommodations does not mean capitalism does. Which is the only thing we are talking about. What is the disconnect?

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Anonymous #1 2w

Wait so you’re saying other systems outside of McDonald’s impact you so it’s ok if McDonald’s doesn’t have those principles. weird that sounds exact like the analogy you apparently can’t understand when I make it.

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Anonymous #1 2w

No I called it a deflection when you asked me what you should like about capitalism which is a different topic.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Ok you know you’re being bad I’m done treating you like a stupid child. You understand my analogy you literally just gave it back to me. You don’t have a meaningful response we’ll just keep going in circles with you saying it’s irrelevant and then being unable to articulate how’s it irrelevant.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

Bad faith*

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Anonymous #1 2w

I also like the selective responding came back.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

Good strawman lmao.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

I can, I just won’t until we finish this. So you don’t cry deflection. Me asking you to repeat my point was seen as a deflection. So instead of engaging in your tantrums. I’ll ONLY talk about this from now on

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

So hurry up and actually engage with what I said

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Anonymous #1 2w

It is when you don’t engage with the point.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Sorry you have whatever personal issue but your argument isn’t that strong I’m gonna leave you here to cope. Hope you can get over what ever this convo was a product of lol, this was a weird one for me.

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Anonymous blue__wave 2w

So you’re running away after you refuse to engage in my actual argument. Got it! lmao. That was fun

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