Anonymous #1 5d

Whataboutism

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Anonymous #2 5d

Turkey encouraged a population exchange with Greece to obtain Turkish settlers to repopulate depleted Christian villages which they had massacred or expelled. This is not unprecedented historically speaking.

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Anonymous OP 5d

dude we are literally talking about the same thing. That’s not what the word means. It’s the same topic… even if it wasn’t initially colonization, they are now actively colonizing and ethnic cleansing…

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Anonymous #2 5d

So the Jewish citizens in Iran should be blamed for being forced to go to Israel because some foreign government power decided to create Israel?

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Anonymous #1 5d

I mentioned the million Jews who were forcefully removed from their homes 70 years ago. You’re talking about a handful of modern day people. Very different things

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Anonymous OP 5d

It’s not what aboutism they’re referencing your colonialism claim. Unless you were just talking about that specific event?

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Anonymous OP 5d

Firstly, I think those Jewish communities are victims and should not have suffered for Israel’s actions. However it’s misleading to act as if their expulsion had nothing to do with israel’s creation.

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

Did you read the post? I was clearly referring to the founding of Israel

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Anonymous #2 5d

Secondly, I think it’s misleading to act as if Britain or the UN just created Israel out of midair without prompting considering that the Lehi and Irgun had been bombing shit for years to try and get the British to withdraw and to prevent any cap on Jewish immigration. The partition of British Palestine was the result of decades of work by Zionist groups. Had the Palestine partition not happened, Zionist militants would have continued their actions against Britain until they got their way.

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Anonymous OP 5d

If we’re talking about the founding they ethnically cleaned the region. Thats what happened after the Arabs rejected the UN deal.

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Anonymous #2 5d

Read my post again. I directly linked the creation of Israel to the forceful migration of Jewish people. I’m not sure where you’re getting this idea that I’m pretending they’re not related

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Anonymous OP 5d

450,000 settlers in the West Bank isn’t a handful of people.

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Anonymous OP 5d

Cleansed*

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

They were ethnically cleansed from the entirety of the Middle East and forced there. You’re getting this backwards

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Anonymous OP 5d

Okay maybe I am misunderstanding you. My point is that colonization was happening in Israel *before* the expulsion of Jews from middle eastern countries *because* that didn’t happen until after Israel had already been founded. Those Jewish refugees were then used to resettle Arab villages which had been expelled by the IDF, in a manner similar to Turkey.

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Anonymous OP 5d

Yes Jews were but what do you think the Nakba was?

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Anonymous #2 5d

And that expulsion event is unrelated to the colonization process which took place in the West Bank, Gaza, Sinai, East Jerusalem, and the Golan heights. There was not a lack of space for Jewish refugees. There was a political and ideological effort to expand settlements.

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Anonymous #2 5d

Even then, prior to Israel ever being founded, Jews in those countries were experiencing intense religious persecution, often being killed. It’s not like they were all happy and dandy until Israel was founded, and then the Muslim countries all of a sudden decided to get rid of them when Israel became a thing.

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Anonymous #2 5d

Israel’s creation gave Jews a safe place to live, while also giving these Arab countries an easier way to get rid of the Jews than they already had been using (killing them, jailing them, etc)

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

An unfortunate consequence of the persecution and displacement of Jewish people

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Anonymous OP 5d

I am well aware. You don’t decide to expel an ethnic group unless there were already existing prejudices. And many Jewish communities were attempting to go to Israel against the wishes of their own government (such as Morocco). But the reasons for colonization doesn’t change what colonialism is. Many colonists throughout history have been groups fleeing persecution.

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Anonymous #2 5d

I consider the modern settler actions in the West Bank to be the most textbook example of settler colonialism, because it’s actively displacing people through settlement and military force rather than replacing an already-depopulated village or immigrating to a region and buying property to create settlements.

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Anonymous #2 5d

This is why I’m really only referring to the original founding of Israel. People pretend like it’s some illegitimate country because it was taken over by bloodthirsty Jews who just wanted to steal land from other people. When in reality many of the people moving there were forced to be there and offered no other choice

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Anonymous OP 5d

The Nakba happened before Jews were expelled from the Middle East. Antisemitism in Muslim countries was massively amplified because Jewish communities were unfairly blamed for the Nakba. You are ignoring the order of happenings here. The settler movement tied to the Nakba was a response to persecution in Europe, not the Middle East.

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Anonymous OP 5d

Things can happen for reasons, but that doesn’t excuse the bad things they did happen. Zionism emerged as an ideology because of antisemitism in Europe, but that doesn’t invalidate the massacres and expulsions committed by the IDF in 1948, or the continuous history of marginalization and expulsion since.

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Anonymous #2 5d

I do agree though that many people tend to ignore the history of the Mizrahim and the Sephardim and how they ended up in Israel. I mean Israel didn’t exactly treat them well either, it’s pretty well known how marginalized Yemeni and Moroccan Jews have been in Israel.

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Anonymous #2 5d

Like the settler movements which created modern America, Canada, Australia, Argentina, New Zealand, and South Africa weren’t for evil reasons either. It was people seeking a better life, many of them refugees. But the harm they caused was still very very real.

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