Anonymous #5 9w

Okay, then share your opinion. Explain to us how Russia or China’s actions do not constitute imperialism. We can start with either one

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Anonymous #5 9w

Nobody’s going to make fun of you, we’re just giving you a chance to have your opinion heard

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Anonymous OP 9w

Well, first you have to define what you mean by “imperialism.” I would argue that China hasn’t engaged in military regime change like the US has an Iraq, Libya, or Afghanistan. There might be a conversation to be had about the belt and road initiative, but that’s more about economic integration than colonialism. A lot of countries are willingly engaging with China because they offered loans and infrastructure that the IMF wouldn’t.

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Anonymous OP 9w

On Russia, there is a conversation to be about Ukraine, but I’m not just going to except US framing at face value because with NATO expansion and the 2014 maiden coup actually do explain why Russia is doing the things that it does lol I just think that if you’re in supportive, China or Russia, that doesn’t mean you support every action they take - just like if you support America, I’d hope you wouldn’t support every action they’ve taken

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Anonymous #5 9w

My definition of imperialism is down below in my response to #1 if you can see it, and under that definition China’s economically exploitative relations with African nations in particular, as well as Chinese aggression towards Taiwan and the territorial dispute in the South China Sea very clearly constitute an imperialist attempt to exert dominance over sovereign nations.

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Anonymous #5 9w

I just feel like if we’re gonna talk about authoritarianism China and Russia shouldn’t be the first examples win Israel, Saudi Arabia, and AMERICA are all right there

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Anonymous #5 9w

When israel*

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Anonymous #5 9w

I’ve also addressed Ukraine below, and that’s a blatantly obvious case of Russian imperialism which I find concerning that people don’t comprehend.

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Anonymous #5 9w

I’ve shown with my recognition of American imperialism that I’m perfectly able to hold my country accountable. The problem is that people like the ones I’m discussing will excuse any imperialism or atrocity, so long as it’s being done by a nation that’s opposed to the United States. What Russia is doing is so obviously imperialism that anyone can see it, there’s no debate on that. China is a more complex issue but they are in fact acting as an imperialist nation.

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Anonymous #5 9w

I guess the important question is “why is Russian and Chinese imperialism excused, and the suffering of people under their actions dismissed, solely because they as nations are American adversaries?”

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Anonymous #5 9w

I also want to be clear that you make good point and you’re clearly well-versed in this subject. I have no issue with you I just happen to disagree on certain points

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Anonymous OP 9w

I used text to speech because I was driving and the words came out so bad lmao Anyway, I think people are holding these sentiments, not necessarily because they excuse Russia in China, but because a lot of people are really tired of how current frameworks seem to only hold America’s enemies to account, and so if we’re *really* going to be anti-imperialist, the fact that America is one of the biggest imperial offenders needs to be addressed, as does the fact that only holding their enemies

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Anonymous #5 9w

accountable actually helps their imperial cause

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Anonymous #5 9w

I see your point, once again my problem is that when we flip that, and people are so laser focused on America and seeing anyone as fighting “American hegemony” as some heroic crusader, then we see that the violent aggression and brutal repression committed by nations like China and Russia are dismissed because “well what about America? They’re just murdering Ukrainians because NATO exists” and shit like that

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Anonymous #5 9w

IMF loans are predatory… with the B&R, China does literally the exact same thing. There’s also of course China’s behavior regarding Taiwan, or claims of owning the entire EEZ of basically all its neighbors in the South China Sea. China isn’t anti-imperialist with regards to the US, it’s a younger, competing imperial power. It uses less violent methods specifically because those allow it to present itself as an alternative to the US, and also because it simply doesn’t have the military capacity

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Anonymous #7 9w

If anything couldn’t we say that China is the older imperial power? Chinese imperialism was impacting Asia thousands of years before the United States was even a British colony, let alone a global superpower. But yeah I get if you’re just talking about the PRC

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Anonymous #7 9w

to do it yet. in particular the PLAN isn’t particularly good yet, but they’re rapidly building ships to try and contest maritime East Asia. If China had 7 aircraft carriers and the ships to protect them, they’d be doing exactly what America has been since WW2.

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Anonymous OP 9w

Eh it’s kind of a poor argument because that’s not only a long time ago, but literally several different Chinese nations ago. The century+ before the fall of the Qing was spent as a largely isolationist country that was repeatedly getting raped and pillaged by European countries ever 20 years. I wouldn’t say there’s meaningful continuity from like the Ming or Yuan to the PRC other than being the same general civilization.

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Anonymous #7 9w

Totally get that, I do think that the perception from nations they’ve dominated would be different. In Vietnam for example, they see themselves as waging a centuries long battle against Chinese imperialism.

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Anonymous OP 9w

It’s sort of a matter of the more medieval form of imperialism vs the capitalist form of imperialism I guess. But you’re absolutely right about Vietnam, hell they fought a brief war in 1979, because Vietnam invaded the Chinese allied Khmer Rouge.

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