Anonymous #1 1d

What does that have to do with their post? Jews have a history of persecution, it’s really not debatable.

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Anonymous #2 1d

I know the history of the Jews better than most. If you believe they are the one group throughout history who has never done wrong, you’re a fool who ignores their own ancient writings.

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Anonymous #1 1d

My own ancient writings? I’m an atheist. And nobody is arguing that no jews have ever done anything wrong. You just made that up lol

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Anonymous #1 1d

This it sounding a lot like antisemitism. How are Jews uniquely villainous?

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Anonymous OP 1d

He’s about to bring up the Talmud just wait

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Anonymous OP 22h

They are my ancient writings too. The Talmud is one of many examples, yes. Each religion has them. (Not just the writings, the historic accounts of their actions) Pretending any religion or group of people has been sinless for thousands of years doesn’t help that group of people.

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Anonymous OP 22h

Like even the Torah has quite a few examples of groups of Israelites/jews deviating and the consequences eventually (or suddenly) befalling them. Each ancient culture is a story not just of persecution being received, but doing the persecuting. Sometimes it appears justified (the persecuting) sometimes it appears not. For example, I just finished MacCabes. The Jews ally the Romans near the end. The Roman’s at the time are practicing a massive slave trade network, worshiping false god’s, 1/2

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Anonymous #1 22h

2/2 and are making blood/flesh sacrifices to those “gods”. The whole conflict started with the Jews being persecuted quite harshly as they live in foreign lands. I don’t believe it was wise for them to celebrate allying with a different nation conducting themselves in the very manner that brought them to the point of war. And we see the cycle repeat later with the Romans and their occupation of Israel. Several kings back near exodus/kings erect false idols/high places make flesh sacrifices. 2/3

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Anonymous #1 22h

3/3 kill their own generals/kin for power, lust, glory for themselves. Israel descends into hedonism and covetry, wrath befalls them, and the cycle continues.

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Anonymous #1 18h

Nobody here said they were sinless what the fuck are you talking about

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Anonymous #3 18h

Stating we were made the villains… as if we have done nothing to bring wrath upon ourselves, targeting ourselves often enough, is inaccurate. The golden rule appears to apply throughout the history of Israel/Judaism. We have persecuted and been persecuted. It’s not some grand mystery like “oh why is everyone always picking on those who said they follow abrahamic religions?” Groups deviated from the law. Abused people both inside and outside the group, and it came back around. It still is. 1/2

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Anonymous #1 18h

Christians were not antisemitic because of something the Jews did as a collective people. They were not going “you know those Hasmoneans were really persecutory towards Nabatean pagans”

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Anonymous #3 18h

2/2 And each of us has a choice to either continue pretending like it’s just one big bully fest over the course of thousands of years, or to not repeat the mistakes our ancestors made, thus yielding the same results. I choose the latter.

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Anonymous #1 18h

Or rather, by not repeating the mistakes of our ancestors it breaks the cycle and yields different results* (it’s been a slow morning)

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Anonymous #1 18h

Jews were persecuted in Europe due to animosity towards religious minorities, as well as ethnic resentment towards groups occupying merchant or middlemen roles in society. Not because of insufficient piety or due to the historical examples of Jews persecuting other faiths.

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Anonymous #3 18h

What do you think it is to violate your own God’s laws at the expense of your neighbors? I couldn’t tell you how many times the texts warn against utilizing financial and social techniques that became common practice in Europe. They are then later adopted by the Europeans, and the Europeans start abusing their own people. There are ungodly people in religion/group.

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Anonymous #3 18h

I do not think that Jews have been continuously persecuted throughout all of history or that they have never occupied the role of persecutor. The Hasmoneans forcibly converted Canaanites and Arabs to their faith. The Jewish kings of Himyar in Yemen persecuted Christian minorities, leading to their invasion by Aksum. But this post never said that Jews have exclusively been victims.

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Anonymous #1 18h

This seems somewhat similar to the Haredi theology that emerged after the Holocaust which saw it as a punishment from for breaking God’s laws.

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Anonymous #3 18h

Great point. Very true. Well it’s sort of hurting the cause no? I believe it was an Israeli think thank that deduced the worlds view of Israel is “strong” picking on Palestinians as “weak”. (I’ve personally fought in that conflict… not Israel, but just over the horizon) So there are many who believe crafting this narrative of complete persecution without addressing misgivings will fly, and I don’t see anyone buying it, rightfully so.

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Anonymous #1 18h

Think tank*

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Anonymous #1 17h

I think the 1940s were pretty central in the formation of this idea of unending persecution. For a long time there were competing camps in the solution to antisemitism in Europe. There were territorialists, who believed making a Jewish state was the best option. And there were assimilationists, who believed that assimilating into European society would make antisemitism go away. The inherently racial nature of the Holocaust seemed to, in the minds of many, prove that assimilation would not work

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Anonymous #1 17h

And furthermore, the massive rise of antisemitism in the Muslim world following the formation of the state of Israel shifted it from being a primarily European concern, as it was in Zionism’s early years, to a global one. So a period of unprecedented antisemitic violence (the Holocaust and then the Muslim expulsion) meshed well with the theological persecution concepts (from Egypt, Babylon, and Rome)

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Anonymous #3 16h

Also very true. The olive branch extended to Islam was puzzling for quite some time. Very difficult to make peace with those whose own ancient texts foretell of your eradication via war.

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Anonymous #1 16h

It’s because Islam traditionally gives a subservient but tolerated role to groups who are “people of the book.” Hence Judaism and Christianity received a degree of protection in Muslim societies, which “heretical” religions were not afforded in most of European history. Thus when Sephardic Jews were expelled from spain and Portugal, they sought refuge under the ottomans.

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Anonymous #3 16h

It’s kind of wild to me how people nowadays think there’s always been this extreme animosity between Islam and Judaism, when really that’s just a product of the last 70 years. There’s always been antisemitism in the Muslim world of course, but it was a much more tolerant place than Europe. That’s part of why ottoman Palestine, Cyprus, and Turkey were considered desirable places for Russian Jews to emigrate to.

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Anonymous #3 15h

Among leaders in Islam yes. But for your average Islamic commoner, it becomes a tool of pointing fingers towards “there is the bad guy. The people who are not us are standing in the way between you and paradise. Then the imam’s who prosper based on spilling the blood of their own and others people continue the tale as old as the texts themselves, old corrupt leaders attempting to sacrifice the youth for their own comfort/illusion of power. It’s not exclusive to Islam. Judaism and Christianity 1/

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Anonymous #1 15h

2/2 have their own versions of the old corrupt guard trying to sacrifice the youth, I reckon we just see it more coming from Islam because there are more “prophetic” ancient texts in their literature they can isolate and utilize to hypnotize the next generation into their grift.

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Anonymous #1 15h

Mhmm. It’s a common problem with religion, especially organized religion. I think Islam is especially visible today because we happen to live in an era where Christianity has become more moderate, while Islamic fundamentalism has increased as backlash to colonialism. I think Islam and Christianity were similar for most of their histories.

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Anonymous #3 15h

It’s interesting to study their conquests. Christianity and Buddhism have higher rates of peaceful conversion than Islam. It doesn’t seem significant if you study any one decade, but you figure over hundreds/thousands of years, we are somewhat a total sum of all the stories we hold dear, the role models we sought to emulate. With Christianity and Judaism having similar primary figures, despite the tension between them, open hostility is often abated. It’s not always the case, but that’s 1/2

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Anonymous #3 15h

3/3 thing that puzzled me was the celebration of the decline of Christianity in the west. The replacement of core figures and role models. It’s as if many of those who would have been Christians started asking themselves what would Ironman do, thus worshiping a new set of false idols, just not calling them that.

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