Anonymous stoner22 2d

It’s really not.

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Anonymous ___joker__ 2d

It really is.

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Anonymous stoner22 2d

What do you think the world was like before currency? Give it your best shot.

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Anonymous ___joker__ 2d

Currency is not the same as capitalism. When capitalism first emerged it was progressive for its time, it along with mercantilism pushed feudalism/nobility/etc out and allowed for social mobility and was objectively good for more people. That is no longer the case. We are in a modern feudal system where the rich ruling class act with impunity. Billionaires should not exist, they act just how absolute monarchs acted.

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Anonymous stoner22 2d

So your issue isnt with capitalism, just with modern capitalism?

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Anonymous stoner22 2d

Money didn’t invent greed, and capitalism didn’t invent money. Feudalism was hereditary power enforced by violence. Capitalism replaced it because it broke that system.

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Anonymous OP 2d

It’s with capitalism as a whole, modern capitalism is much worse especially with crony capitalism. We no longer need capitalism, we can and should move past it. It no longer benefits society, it is a detriment. It does not benefit the large majority of people, it harms them.

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Anonymous ___joker__ 2d

Yes and now capitalism is broken and must be replaced.

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Anonymous stoner22 2d

“Crony capitalism” is a failure of state power, not markets. If capitalism truly benefited no one, it wouldn’t be the system every alternative ends up recreating in practice.

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Anonymous ___joker__ 2d

Capitalism no longer benefits people in the “first world” it is a stepping stone to better material conditions when compared to feudalism etc. It no longer provides those conditions.

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Anonymous ___joker__ 2d

How is it a failing of rhw state when capitalism itself calls for the invisible hand to regulate the markets not rhw state? Capitalists abhor the state when it sets regulations like those necessary to prevent crony capitalism. So could you please explain?

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Anonymous stoner22 2d

You’re asserting historical progress has stalled, but not naming a system that outperforms markets without recreating them.

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Anonymous stoner22 2d

The “invisible hand” isn’t regulation, it’s a description of how prices coordinate behavior. Crony capitalism requires state power to grant favors, monopolies, or bailouts. Markets alone can’t do that.

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Anonymous ___joker__ 2d

Yes and state corruption is rampant due to capitalism. Capitalists always criticize the state for being corruption and use it as an argument for why systems like socialism can not exist but more often than not state corruption is tied to capital, billionaires control our government and benefit themselves. Crony capitalism exists because of capitalism. It exists because of the inherent greed of capital, the “holy” goal of the profit margin.

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Anonymous ___joker__ 2d

Market socialism, democratic socialism, even social democracy are better systems. Yes social democracy tends to fall under capitalism but it along with market socialism has strong state regulations and anticapitalist policies. Capital will always serve itself before the common good and that is the problem.

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Anonymous stoner22 2d

If greed makes capitalism unworkable, it makes every system unworkable because none remove incentives, they just concentrate control. That’s why corruption scales with state power, not markets. Market socialism still relies on prices, profit signals, and capital allocation, i.e., markets. You haven’t escaped capitalism; you’ve just renamed a regulated version of it. So you haven’t moved forward, you just did a lateral.

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Anonymous ___joker__ 2d

Workers owning the means of production is not a lateral move. It removes the concentration of power from an individuals (or small group or people’s) hands. It is miles better than capitalism for that reason alone. That being said yes consolidation of state power can corrupt, absolutely yes. Just as concentration of wealth (ie. Power) corrupts. Just look at the USA rn. We have the names of dozens of wealthy and powerful people (many of which are billionaires or similarly wealthy) 1/2

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Anonymous ___joker__ 2d

That have raped/tortured/bought/sold/trafficked/ etc children around the world for nothing but their own pleasure. We know their names and yet nothing is being done. Why? Because of their wealth and connections. Those exist solely because of capitalism. Tjat level of wealth and power exists solely because of exploitation, just as extreme concentrations of power and abuse existed in feudalistic societies, though never to this level (which admittedly is partially bc of global connectivity)

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Anonymous stoner22 2d

Those crimes are real and horrific, but blaming them solely on capitalism is a category error. Abuse, trafficking, and elite impunity existed long before capitalism and under every system, including feudal, socialist, and theocratic states. What enables impunity isn’t markets, it’s captured institutions and political protection. Wealth alone can’t stop prosecution; state power does. You’re indicting corruption and human behavior, not a system of exchange.

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