Anonymous #1 2w

True, much better our current system, where everyone gets to be exploited

-2

Anonymous OP 2w

capitalism requires exploitation by nature, no such thing as non-exploitative capitalism

5

Anonymous #1 2w

Not technically. Capitalism promotes exploitation but it’s not the core.

0

Anonymous #2 2w

yes it is, profits under capitalism occur when workers aren’t paid the full value for the products or labor they produce The profits are surplus value taken by owners and managers that didn’t do the actual labor or work That’s the entire basis of

1

Anonymous #1 2w

You are talking as if companies can’t make profit paying their workers a fair wage. They can. Companies can make a profit while paying a reasonable wage. Capitalism itself is not harmful but due to human greed, it causes harm.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

If a worker were paid “fairly” like you suggest, then the company would have zero profits, profit by definition is the difference between what a worker produces and what they are paid, if you close that gap to make it “fair,” the business ceases to exist as a capitalist entity because it has no capital to reinvest or distribute to owners

1

Anonymous #2 2w

You cannot have a “fair” version of the system built on the premise of taking what doesn’t belong to you

1

Anonymous #1 2w

Profit by definition refers to the business itself not the workers. Also a company does not pay you for what you produce. It pays you for your time. If I work at McDonald’s I’m not being paid by the number of orders I take or the number of fries I cook. It’s based on the hours I spend there. A company can afford to pay you a fair amount for a portion of your time and still gain a profit. Again capitalism can work if people weren’t greedy. Better yet, capitalism + socialism is the ideal imo

0

Anonymous #2 2w

I agree that you are paid for your time, but I view this as a deceptive money-relation You aren't selling "labor" (the actual work); you are selling your labor-power (your capacity to work). The capitalist buys your labor-power for a day at its market price (your wage). However, in the first few hours of your shift (e.g., 4 hours of an 8-hour shift), you produce enough value to cover the cost of your own wage.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

For the remaining hours, you continue working, but the value you create now belongs entirely to the owner. This extra time is surplus labor, and the value it creates is surplus value, the source of all profit. By paying you by the hour, the system makes it look like every hour is paid when in reality several hours are essentially unpaid.

1

Anonymous #2 2w

The business is owned by the capitalist (the bourgeoisie), who owns the means of production (the fryers, the building, the brand, etc.). Production at McDonald’s is a collective social act, many people work together to make it function, but the resulting profit is privately appropriated by the owner. Since labor is the only thing that creates new value, all profit is essentially stolen from the collective effort of the workers.

1

I get what you’re saying. If we convert labor to time and time to pay then technically the company owes you more. I get that and you are right.

1