Anonymous #1 6d

Neither lmao

1

Anonymous #2 6d

What do they say?

0

Anonymous #1 6d

It’s really the first one with the exception of the term “authoritarian regime” and no one believes the 2nd, that is a straw man and you know it

1

Anonymous OP 6d

sorry are you implying North Korea’s government is not an authoritarian regime

1

Anonymous OP 6d

It’s an authoritarian regime

6

Anonymous #1 6d

Do you guys even know what authoritarian means? Every country is authoritarian. “Authoritarian” has only been weaponized against the wests’ political enemies since the Cold War. It’s red scare shit

-1

Anonymous OP 6d

i don’t think my eyebrows have ever gone further up my forehead than they did just now when i read that. i just— what

1

Anonymous #3 6d

?? You’ve never heard this before? Are you on the far right?

1

Anonymous OP 6d

no i’m fairly left, grew up in a solid blue state, very left town, went to college in a very blue city, studied sociology with socialist professors for 2 years… and i’ve never heard that

1

Anonymous OP 6d

…are you that person who was defending the government of Eritrea weeks ago?

1

Anonymous #3 6d

You need to do a lot more research on the Cold War, the Korean War and our foreign policy then it looks like!

1

Anonymous #1 6d

Nope, know nothing about Eritrea unfortunately

1

Anonymous #1 6d

Authoritarian means authoritarian. It’s not a neutral label. South Korea was extremely authoritarian until the 80s. So was Taiwan. American puppet governments in El Salvador, Chile, Brazil, and Argentina are universally described as authoritarian by human rights groups and political experts. America is becoming increasingly authoritarian right now. It’s not a fake term only for US enemies.

6

Anonymous #1 6d

“Every government is authoritarian” lacks nuance. There are governments where I can be executed for saying I don’t like the leader. That is obviously different from a government where I am free to do so.

1

Anonymous OP 6d

Okay because there was this girl who was saying there’s a western conspiracy against Eritrea and that’s why it’s known for human rights abuses and that authoritarianism is ok.

1

Anonymous #1 6d

authoritarian means “demands absolute obedience to a single authority”. usually a single person or single governing group. that’s objectively North Korea

4

Anonymous OP 6d

north korean people who escape have called it authoritarian. people who study this shit call it authoritarian.

1

Anonymous #1 6d

Human rights groups that are all headed by America or their allies By definition every country is authoritarian, it’s a meaningless Cold War boogeyman term

1

Anonymous #1 6d

It doesn’t lack nuance bc it’s always been a bs term lol

0

Anonymous OP 6d

have u ever lived in north korea?

1

Anonymous OP 6d

So why are human rights groups saying the USA is becoming increasingly authoritarian? Why do human rights groups consider many American allied and puppet governments of the past and present to be authoritarian?

6

Anonymous #3 6d

It just means a political system with political power concentrated in a small group or person… that’s pm every county?

0

Anonymous #4 6d

Only the ones who get paid to say so say so And proper DPRK experts don’t believe in phony bs propaganda lol

1

Anonymous #4 6d

No, have you?

1

Anonymous OP 6d

u are genuinely slow brother 😭

0

Anonymous #4 6d

Wdym, “brother”?

1

Anonymous OP 6d

no, but i listen to the stories from people who have. you should try it

1

Anonymous OP 6d

it's a word

1

Anonymous OP 6d

Some countries have political apparatuses that allow for the government to be influenced by the average person. Many countries also have a system of checks and balances and human rights that prevents people from being disappeared and executed if some government official feels like it. If I live in the Netherlands, I am free to speak my mind and vote and campaign and run for office in a way I can’t in North Korea or Turkmenistan or Saudi Arabia

2

Anonymous #4 6d

No, my slow brother. How am I genuinely slow, “brother”? And I have, you should listen to all voices. Not just us propagated ones

1

Anonymous OP 6d

if i was just listening to the propogated ones i'd be just like you so no thanks.

1

Anonymous #1 6d

Why do you think you wouldn’t be able to in NK? They’re more democratic than this country

0

Anonymous OP 6d

that's the funniest thing ive heard all year, keep going

0

Anonymous #4 6d

You do just listen to us propagated sources, it’s clear

0

Anonymous #4 6d

Have you ever actually done any research on it? Their constitution?

1

Anonymous OP 6d

and ur sources are...? north korean propaganda?

1

Anonymous OP 6d

have you

1

Anonymous #4 6d

Uhh the constitution itself? And loads. It’s clear you haven’t

0

Anonymous OP 6d

so yes your source is north korean propaganda. good to know

1

Anonymous OP 6d

"um guys they say they're good, so they must be!"

1

Anonymous #4 6d

“Um guys North Korea is the absolute worst bc the country that genocided them says so so they must be!!” And I’m referring to primary sources my “brother”

1

Anonymous #4 6d

No, it’s literal primary source silly

1

Anonymous OP 6d

so your sources are ok and obviously not biased but my sources of people who have actually lived there and experienced this aren't..? ok buddy hope that dick tastes ok

0

Anonymous OP 6d

a biased one

0

Anonymous #4 6d

Do all your sources conveniently line up with Cold War propaganda about America’s political enemies? It’s illegal to speak positively about NK in SK, you realize that right

1

Anonymous OP 6d

it's illegal to speak ill of north korea in north korea. if u love it sm and think it's so great, why not move there? ohhh right you can't.

1

Anonymous #4 6d

Not true. Why would I move there as an American? How offensive would that be

1

Anonymous OP 6d

immigration isn't offensive. and it is true. the only sources you have saying it isn't is shit released BY THE NORTH KOREAN GOVERNMENT. bet u love trump too huh?

0

Anonymous #4 6d

My American ass moving to NK would be offensive according to how I view the world and what I know about what we’ve done to them. I don’t really care if you agree or not That’s not even true Trump hates NK, you realize that right …

1

Anonymous OP 6d

keep defending that dictator babe, im sure he'll notice you eventually

0

Anonymous #4 6d

Ew not the gross racist Kim memes now

0

Anonymous OP 6d

I can see this isn’t going anywhere. But basically you say any source that says bad things about North Korea is propaganda that must be dismissed, while all sources saying positive things about North Korea must be truthful. You know north Korea can be propagandized *and* also be shitty and authoritarian? Iran made a lot of fuss about US police brutality during the BLM protests. That’s propaganda that also had a lot of truth.

2

Anonymous OP 6d

who tf is kim

0

Anonymous #1 6d

Aka, your post was the second category I originally listed

5

Anonymous #4 6d

You don’t even know who we’re talking about….

1

Anonymous OP 6d

im so sorry i didn't recognize north korea's dictator by first name. didnt realize u were chummy with the The Big-un like that

0

Anonymous #1 6d

I’ve never said that. Give me a source and I’ll let you know if it’s us propaganda It probably is pretty shit bc of how much we destroyed the shit out of their country and secluded them And there’s the straw man. I never said or even implied anything in the 2nd straw man

1

Anonymous #4 6d

That’s their family name not his first name, holy shit lmao

1

Anonymous OP 6d

my first thought was kim kardashian

1

Anonymous OP 6d

wait are you the guy from yesterday who was calling people imperialist doggies for saying North Korea controlling information is authoritarian

2

Anonymous #3 6d

are you also the guy who said Xi Jinping is a true believer of Marxism and genuinely trying to create a communist utopia

2

Anonymous #3 6d

Nopeeee, I don’t come here often. Only been coming here bc the community I’m usually in is dead af And no

0

Anonymous OP 6d

you should hang out with those guys you’d get along

6

Anonymous #3 6d

Hey I’m always down to have more leftist friends, where they at

1

Anonymous OP 6d

do you also think the ayatollahs are actually good leaders unfairly demonized for opposing western imperialism

1

Anonymous OP 6d

somewhere here

1

Anonymous #3 6d

Haven’t done in depth research on that one myself, I only speak on issues I’ve heavily researched

1

Anonymous OP 6d

well i’d respect but i’m a bit worried that me and you may have different definitions of “research”

1

Anonymous #3 6d

What’s your definition? That it has to come from the state department?

1

Anonymous OP 6d

no but the fact that i knew you would say exactly that is very telling

1

Anonymous #3 6d

Yeah sorry the most important thing I do first is check the funding of my sources

1

Anonymous OP 6d

do you then dismiss and refuse to read anything that could possibly have ties to the state department no matter how slight or distant the ties may be and with no regard to the editorial standards of the publication or level of rigor in the piece itself

1

Anonymous #3 6d

When it comes to foreign policy and any of our political enemies, esp if we have history that goes back to the Cold War, I have no reason to trust the United States government would ever be truthful or fully transparent

1

Anonymous OP 6d

so yes

1

Anonymous #3 6d

but you don’t have the same standard for sources that may have been funded by the government of said political enemies

1

Anonymous OP 6d

The American bombing of North Korea and its international isolation certainly contributes to it being highly authoritarian. I never said the USA didn’t have anything to do with it. Part of that was also the Kim family and other opportunists coalescing power. Hwang Jang-yop would argue the Kims have corrupted and abandoned Juche.

2

Anonymous #3 6d

What do you think their goal would be in lying? What do you think America’s goal is in lying?

1

Anonymous OP 6d

they all have the same goal— legitimize themselves, gain support, silence dissent

1

Anonymous #1 6d

There can be *reasons* contributing to a country becoming authoritarian. That doesn’t mean the authoritarianism doesn’t exist or that those currently in power are not taking advantage of those past circumstances for their own benefit. History is complex but that doesn’t make an authoritarian government pure or blameless. And an authoritarian government can be propagandized. For an extreme example, we made propaganda against the Nazis.

5

Anonymous #1 6d

Contributes? lol. Do you know how many people our sanctions kill annually. Do you remember how we were gonna starve them out in the 90s after their famine to teach them a lesson? Kim Il-sung was a hero, wdym opportunists lmao

1

Anonymous #3 6d

No, socialist and capitalist countries have very different goals lol. Ones in favor of the rich elite owning the means of production and one is the workers’ owning the means

1

Anonymous OP 6d

okay now you have to be trolling

1

Anonymous #1 6d

Sure. That’s just simply not the case with the DPRK bc you know, facts and history And it doesn’t change the uselessness of the term “authoritarian” Ik you want to paint my beliefs as “blindly sucking off the dictator” or whatever racist shit ppl say about the DPRK but I agree that it’s very much nuanced. They’re poor and isolated and most of us live better lives. Their government is far from perfect. It doesn’t make it some cartoonishly evil hellscape or even auth like we’re made to believe

1

Anonymous #3 6d

Trolling about what, aren’t you the one who hasn’t even done any research on the topic?

1

Anonymous OP 6d

What gave you the impression I don’t know how shit U.S. sanctions are? That contributes to authoritarianism, poverty, and international isolation in North Korea and keeps people suffering unnecessarily in Cuba and Venezuela. I think it’s been very clear here I know all the bad shit the USA has done. I just don’t use it to whitewash dictatorships. The Kim cult of personality was mostly from Jong Il.

5

Anonymous OP 6d

so you dismiss any sources that might be connected to a capitalist government because capitalism always lies and you automatically accept any sources that might be connected to a socialist government because socialists always tell the truth and you don’t ever wonder if maybe people— especially powerful people— don’t always use the label that matches their actual intentions?

0

Anonymous #1 6d

Like I don’t know how nuance is that hard lol. There’s reasons the north became authoritarian. Same with the south from the 50s to the 80s. Same with Taiwan until almost the 90s. Doesn’t mean that authoritarianism wasn’t real. And it doesn’t make executions of defectors and political dissidents ok. Normal counties don’t shoot people for trying to leave.

4

Anonymous #1 6d

So you know the US is why there even is a “north” Korea and yet you still believe America’s propaganda about them…?? Bc??

1

Anonymous #1 6d

It’s not like the maintaining of an elite political ruling class in North Korea is like cool and chill for all the workers in poverty. Turns out, people like to stratify society with themselves on top, if they have the chance to do that. Hereditary monarchies aren’t exactly what communism spoke out in favor of.

4

Anonymous #3 6d

Bc capitalism’s goal is to squash us, the worker. It’s class warfare. Which is why they have propaganda… Who said i automatically accept any source, what 😭

1

Anonymous #1 6d

agree with 1 and also want to bring up the songbun system in regards to that point

5

Anonymous #1 6d

The DPRK doesn’t shoot anyone for trying to leave. There you go believing outrageous US propaganda lol

1

Anonymous OP 6d

Because not everything critical of a country is automatically propaganda. World history is complex. You don’t have to separate it into “pure noble flawless heroes” and “evil lying villains.” Many places are a mix of good and bad. North Korean support for anticolonial rebellions in Africa? Good. Execution of political dissidents and creating cults of personality? Bad.

3

Anonymous #1 6d

^agree with #1 again, very well said

0

Anonymous #1 6d

Why do you keep reducing my nuanced understanding of history to be black and white when I’ve clearly been highlighting the grey the whole time?? Like no it’s not this perfect utopia but it’s not this cartoonishly evil place either 😭 that’s my whole point And when it’s the US making a claim about its political enemy it’s either a lie or a misframing of the truth, why do you think they spend billions on propaganda? By what incentive would America tell the truth about its political enemy?

1

Anonymous #1 6d

If you’re gonna criticize the DPRK from your ivory castle in the imperial core, at least make it accurate and evidence based. Not just based off hearsay or vibes

1

Anonymous OP 6d

look you actually just said “Kim Il-sung was a hero”. never have i ever come away from studying any history of any country thinking “X leader who was in power for decades was a hero”. usually you have to do some pretty messed up things to stay in power that long

0

Anonymous OP 6d

Was Iran not telling the truth when it told its citizens that U.S. police are killing black people? Were the Soviets not telling the truth when they spoke about American Jim Crow laws? Those were both propaganda tools used by both states to deflect from their own human rights abuses.

4

Anonymous #3 6d

the only people who will tell you dictators are heroes are the dictators themselves

1

Anonymous #1 6d

Propaganda doesn’t have to be a lie. It often is. But when the truth is convenient for your side, amplifying true things can be a part of propaganda. Some things are lies, some aren’t. Propaganda is not propaganda because it is true or false, it’s propaganda because it supports a side. Viewing everything critical as “propaganda therefore false” is a bad way of deducing what is and is not true. It’s true or false based on the evidence or lack thereof.

5

Anonymous #3 6d

He was…. He saved his country from being colonized…. TWICE. How was he not a hero to the Korean ppl. Again you haven’t researched like any of this, why are you still here 😭 listen to blowback’s season on Korea. Fr

1

Anonymous #1 6d

No they were right to call out America’s hypocrisy and telling us to look in the mirror before we cast stones lmao

1

Anonymous OP 6d

Dude. You called the DPRK more democratic than the USA. Come on man don’t pretend like you aren’t absolutely glazing North Korea.

1

Anonymous OP 6d

So… their propaganda was therefore based on something true about the USA? Showing that true things can be used for propagandistic purposes?

1

Anonymous #1 6d

Bc it is dude. They have much more of a direct democracy, which represents the workers instead of the ruling class and a much better system of meritocracy

1

Anonymous OP 6d

he’s not a hero because he created a cult of personality, established himself and his son as Eternal Presidents, created a strict caste system that kept large parts of the population in desperate poverty, established a network of secret prisons where he sent initially his political opponents and then eventually random people who didn’t respect his photograph well enough to be worked to death

1

Anonymous #1 6d

Just bc the bar is in HELL with the US doesn’t mean correcting misinformation is glazing anything lmao. That’s the bare minimum

1

Anonymous OP 6d

THEIR ELECTIONS ARE CONTROLLED BY THE PARTY. THEY CAN’T VOTE FOR ANYONE BUT THE PARTY. THEY ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO NOT VOTE

0

Anonymous #3 6d

He’s not a hero for fighting off two of the strongest colonial powers… okay then Girl that is all insane to genuinely believe

1

Anonymous #3 6d

the type of conversation you and #1 are having here where you freely acknowledge the US government has done terrible things and spreads propaganda is literally not possible in North Korea. you can get killed for it

1

Anonymous #3 6d

THIS IS NOT AT ALL TRUE. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH

1

Anonymous OP 6d

give me one piece of evidence that it’s not true other than “it supports the US narrative”

1

Anonymous OP 6d

i literally just went and double checked that

1

Anonymous OP 6d

They have a stratified bureaucratic society and a hereditary monarchy. You cannot vote for people that the party does not already approve of you voting for for. The politicians *are* the ruling class. How many democracies are ruled by hereditary lines? How many democracies lack a political opposition? And meritocracy is frankly a myth in most places, especially in a place where being the child of a major government official ensures you will be an official yourself if you stay loyal.

4

Anonymous #3 6d

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.asgp.info/Resources/Data/Documents/CJOZSZTEPVVOCWJVUPPZVWPAPUOFGF.pdf&sa=D&source=editors&ust=1770357263804503&usg=AOvVaw3r-zalR25qEHGK_OZO_XfY

1

Anonymous #1 6d

We really aren’t existing the cycle of “anything critical is US propaganda and anything supportive must be true.” Like this is how Armenian genocide denial works. Everything critical of Turkey is an international anti-Turkish conspiracy.

6

Anonymous #1 6d

Not true, they’re selected in a census model at the local level Well yeah they’re the ruling class instead of the capital owners. Yup It’s not even ruled by a hereditary line, he’s not even president. There are 3 different political parties…

1

Anonymous #1 6d

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7591/j.ctt32b5jt&sa=D&source=editors&ust=1770357263804678&usg=AOvVaw1_Z2KviN2Hvx816xeBI3eC

1

Anonymous OP 6d

“Correcting misinformation” and it’s great man theory of history and defending a stratified monarchy as being woke working class solidarity actually and defending an authoritarian state for…what reason exactly? Like you know that North Korea doing terrible things doesn’t invalidate your political belief in communism. I mean Hwang Jang-yop himself said North Korea had betrayed juche and developed feudalism.

3

Anonymous #1 6d

America is America and a settler colonial state founded on slavery, genocide and death. And is currently responsible for the most suffering in the world thru imperialism. It’s not turkey

1

Anonymous OP 6d

Turkey was founded on settler colonialism and genocide lol. But I was comparing Turkey to North Korea in this instance. Because Turkey claims any Armenian genocide acknowledgement is anti-Turkish lies and propaganda. Which is what you say about critiques of North Korea.

4

Anonymous #1 6d

Woke? Bruh all I said was that it’s a democracy and that the cartoonishly evil story is a lie, I never even said anything positive about NK. Just facts 😭

1

Anonymous OP 6d

Ruling classes…are bad. The point of communism is to try and give rid of classes. Creating a ruling class of political elite families is just re-inventing social stratification.

6

Anonymous OP 6d

that first link isnt working

1

Anonymous #3 6d

and idk why you think its cartoonish it sounds pretty par for the course for human history to me

1

Anonymous #3 6d

people in power generally like to stay in power

1

Anonymous #1 6d

No it wasn’t, look up the definition of settler colonialism. And yes bc North Korea has been decimated by western “democracy”

1

Anonymous #1 6d

What do you think a ruling class is? It’s just who’s in power what 😭

1

Anonymous #3 6d

Maybe this link tree will work for you, it is very helpful

1

Anonymous #3 6d

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fPJjTYGBo4QRuafFkbWTA8imbpr-QP3tD_946Yv_v3A/mobilebasic

1

Anonymous OP 6d

Falsely (I know you’re gonna disagree but I’m saying falsely) claiming a country to be democratic *is* saying positive things about that country. And you also seemed confused that I know about what America has done to North Korea, but also don’t support its government. It’s because I know there is nuance, and I don’t claim every expert on authoritarianism is lying just because it makes any given country I like look bad.

5

Anonymous OP 6d

Oh I am extremely familiar with the definition and history of settler colonialism. Turkey genocided Greeks, Armenians, and Assyrians and replaced them with Turkish settlers expelled from the Balkans. They adopted Armenian children to Turkish families to remove their culture. They banned Greek culture and mass settled Turks in the islands of Tendos and Imbros and removed Greek place names. They are still sending settlers to northern Cyprus.

5

Anonymous #1 6d

The founding of the republic of Turkey was essentially a contraction of the Ottoman Empire and the replacement of a liberalized Islamic government with a secularized Turkish state. While the Ottoman Empire contained multitudes of people groups, Turkey was for Turks. And it had many people who weren’t Turks. The founders of Turkey wanted them removed. So you had the multiple genocides, the agreed population exchange in Greece, the colonization of Imbros and Tenedos, and Cyprus (complicated)

1