Anonymous #1 20w

The government will always abandon democracy before it abandons the interests of the one percent. If too many candidates swear off corporate money, they will be primaried out or their elections will be rigged. They could also be blackmailed, bribed, or killed. Nothing is out of the question

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

While this is good, it’s also intentional. If something is wildly unpopular they’ll retract it and do something else but quietly. But at the end of the day, we will never legislate big oil out of existence; they’ll make the status quo more tolerable so that we don’t demand what we deserve

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Anonymous OP 20w

Then its popularity directing policy. This always the populism paradox of government corruption. If government does bad thing = bad. If government does good thing = its a trick = also bad. Literally no evidence can disprove this narrative. What do mean legislate big oil? I just gave you example of them legislating big oil you just rejected lol.

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Anonymous OP 20w

What oil legislation would you like to see that they aren’t doing?

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

I’m not saying it’s bad, I’m saying it’s not enough and will never be enough. There is a difference. It’s good that harm has been reduced but this is not a sustainable way to do things.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

As for legislation, I’d personally like to see an overhaul of transportation. More public transit infrastructure and less cars could decrease emissions even if the public transit in question runs on oil. This will, of course, not happen: car lobbyists are too ubiquitous and powerful.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

As far as “legislate big oil” i did not only say that, i said “legislate big oil out of existence”, as in use the law to prevent oil companies from having an undue influence on politics. It cannot be done because they can afford to buy politicians (and sometimes even write the laws!)

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Anonymous OP 20w

Idk this just going to be impossible to prove anything to you. Anything that you like that happens will not be enough and will still somehow also be evidence of corruption. If they can buy any politician why would any politician write legislation hurting them?

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

I think you misunderstand. Let me rephrase. Democrats and Republicans work together to preserve the status quo. So long as the status quo is preserved, we will not see the change needed in order to curb the power of corporations. This is not corruption or an anomaly; the system is doing exactly what it was built to do.

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Anonymous #4 20w

I agree! Voting matters because it reduces the harm done until solutions can be arrived at. I am only saying that, as far as matters of policy, people’s opinions are not the most important factor. “Vote, of course, but true political change will not come from voting.” We can dismantle the oligarchy, but it won’t be through the ballot box

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Anonymous OP 20w

No I understand what you’re saying. I’m saying I disagree with you and I can’t disprove your claim, bc you set an impossible burden. Sure I can just say bad instead of corruption, I honestly don’t care that much about the semantics of corruption I’m trying to focus on the claim.

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Anonymous OP 20w

The equating of the two parties is so cringe. When one party had a super majority they gave millions of people healthcare. When Republicans have a majority they’ve kicked millions off of Medicaid. The only people who give these takes are the people who aren’t impacted by any of these issues.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

This is a frustrating interpretarion. I’m not equating the two parties, either. I only say they work together. One is definitely better than the other. It’s because I’m affected by these issues that I vote democrat every time. How could I not? They’ve got me by the balls!

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

But consider this. Democrats helped censure Al Green. Obama didn’t appoint anyone to the supreme court at the end of his term because reps said “the country needs to decide the election first”. Then when Trump neared the end of his term, the republicans sent that shit right through. Democrats did nothing.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

Democrats have a habit of leaving things up for grabs by Republicans, and then saying “vote for us or republicans will take away your rights!” They take no steps to prevent this because it would be bad for their campaigns. Then, when our rights DO get taken away, they just say “told ya so”

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

Biden didnt expand the supreme court OR introduce term limits. In fact, he OPPOSED expanding it. This would have curbed the 6-3 republican majority

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

Additionally, Obama just loved himself some drone strikes. Biden and Kamala backed Israel even with the genocide in Gaza. Many house and senate democrats continue to back Israel.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

So no, I’m not equating the two parties. Republicans are straight up evil. Democrats are performative and spineless. There is a difference. I vote democrat, but there’s no chance in hell I would ever call myself a democrat. This shit touches every portion of my life. I have lost so much faith in the government and I can’t afford to just “vote blue no matter who” my way out of this. I hope you understand.

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Anonymous OP 20w

Your framing is so wild “they’ve got me by the balls” you can just say you like their policy lol. What were democrats supposed to do why are they responsible for what republicans do lol? Biden had a slim majority then a split in congress there’s no way he could have packed the court.

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Anonymous OP 20w

All of these convos always boil down to people not understanding how our federal government works or were popular support is at. Biden had no chance to pack the court trying to would have been an epic failure. It’s just the most absurd demands and dramatic framing.

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Anonymous OP 20w

Idk what to say collective efforts are hard in a country of people with hundreds of millions of people. I would be frustrated too ig if I thought Biden could just pack the court whenever he wanted to and he was just too stupid too, or maybe we’re going to go with a conspiracy that he wanted Trump to win and possibly bring political charges on his family.

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Anonymous OP 20w

How our institutions are set up inherently benefits republicans for example: the senate, the current capping of the house, the electoral college, gerrymandering. All of these things give republicans a huge advantage over democrats. I’m fine with demanding things from politicians but they have to be grounded in reality.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

I said “they’ve got me by the balls” because i don’t even like their policy all that much. It’s just that I either vote for them or the republicans get into power and do what they’re doing now. It’s not really a choice if the two options are incompetent versus morally bankrupt

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

As far as “what are democrats supposed to do” fucking ANYTHING!! Republicans play dirty all the time and the democrats for the most part just roll over and let it happen! Why aren’t more democrats leaving the state like they did in Texas? Where’s the rest of the gerrymandering? Why do they always say “ahem yes we must remain civil” when republicans get up to some vile shit?

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Anonymous OP 20w

Idk what to tell you I’m sorry other Americans don’t hold the same opinions as you. Support more far left people in the primary.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

I am just begging them to do SOMETHING for once. Republicans just took away trans peoples’ IDs in Kansas. Why not pass a law to issue them new IDs from another state? Roe v Wade limited abortions to just a few states. Why not start a program to distribute abortion pills? Why not send doctors from blue states into red ones? If they’re arrested, why not have a dedicated lawyer on standby to delay, disrupt, and postpone the trial?

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Anonymous OP 20w

Democrats have been gerrymandering. This has been pretty big news recently but ok. I like how we moved from this conspiracy of democrats and republicans working together to now saying democrats are actually better but it’s not enough. We’ll keep running in this circle of me giving examples of democrats doing things and you saying it’s not enough, bc this isn’t a rational convo.

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Anonymous OP 20w

It’s literally impossible for me move you from this narrative bc any evidence I provide isn’t an enough or it’s a conspiracy.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

My point is this. Democrats are focused on decorum and process, while republicans are not. This puts them at a disadvantage, even when they’re not throwing trans people (Newsom) and palestinians (Harris) under the bus for the

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Anonymous OP 20w

for the sake of an election**

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Anonymous OP 20w

In sum, democrats are the better party, I 100% agree. But there are some issues that they only begrudgingly support. There are other issues they won’t even touch. They’re the better party, but they by no means represent my interests.

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Anonymous OP 20w

We have to send doctors to get arrested in red states, this is the genius policy democrats are missing to push back?

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Anonymous OP 20w

Newsom didn’t didn’t throw trans people under the bus I know what you’re quoting and that wasn’t what he was saying lol.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

They do work together on some things and oppose republicans on other things. This is because the democrats and the republicans share common ground on some issues (i.e. economic systems, imperialism) while disagreeing on other issues. This is what I mean by “preserving the status quo”. They do both.

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Anonymous OP 20w

We moved from republicans and Dems are working together to Dems are better. That’s progress ig, but I know you’re gonna be back saying the same shit.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

It’s not a conspiracy, it’s only what’s been observed. I’ll tell you what evidence you can provide to change my mind: has there ever been a time that the democratic party at large has advocated for vulnerable people, even when it wasn’t popular? What has the democratic party’s reasoning for opposing republicans? For example, has it been “we should uphold due process” (limp) or has it been “we must tackle the ills of our society at the root”?

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Anonymous OP 20w

This last question can apply to many things: for example, the Iran War and ICE

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

And finally, it’s not a conspiracy. I don’t think that they often consciously work together, though I can think of examples where it’s happened. There aren’t politicians hiding in dark rooms and plotting, no. Like you said, it’s just how the government works. Democrats are unable and unwilling to make fundamental changes to this structure. This is what makes them ineffective: they treat the symptoms of the disease, but they don’t address the root causes. The system itself does not permit it.

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Anonymous OP 20w

Anyway see you at the ballot box i guess

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

Oh my gaaaawwwwd they do both! They work together on some things and oppose republicans on other things! I never once equated the two parties, I resent that sentiment. They are better but it’s trash versus garbage. I vote for trash because I don’t want smelly stinky garbage. I never moved

1

Anonymous OP 20w

Are the democrats supposed to be pro socialism lol? It’s fine if you’re this socialist anti American intervention person but you have to realize that the average American isn’t where you’re at. That’s kinda an unrealistic expectation to have for politicians that they have your ideology when it’s not popular.

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Anonymous OP 20w

You’re right democrats aren’t willing and they shouldn’t be. The U.S. is the wealthiest country in all of human history and has been the leader of the most peaceful and prosperous time in human history. Jumping on to this anti American socialist fantasy is a lost cause.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

He vetoed a law that would require judges in custody disputes to consider whether a parent respected a child’s sexual and gender identity, and he blocked and buried other protections for trans people. It wasn’t just the kirk interview.

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Anonymous OP 20w

They oppose republicans on what they meaningfully should oppose them on. Both democrats and republicans think we should breathe air I would frame that as them “working together”. Yeah I know democrats bad but whenever we talk about the specifics of what you want it’s always insane.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

That’s exactly my point. They won’t be socialist, which is why they don’t represent my interests or the interests of many others. People intuitively judge democrats as limp, and this is the reason: they are just a less extreme right wing party

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Anonymous OP 20w

Yes democrats supported the civil rights bill that’s what caused the party shift, democrats have supported social security, Medicare, Medicaid Obama, fdr and LBJ all pushed for publicly funded healthcare. Ig non of the people those programs impacted were vulnerable. Why would they advocate for shit that isn’t popular how do you think a democracy works??

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Anonymous OP 20w

Upholding due process is (limp)? You would only think this if you didn’t know what due process is, what a wild take. Democrats have on mass denounced the Iran war unless you’re talking about fetterman or something. ICE are you against internal immigration enforcement?

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Anonymous OP 20w

No they aren’t, socialism isn’t the norm internationally. I love how you know nothing about politics but have the strongest opinions. Unironically asking me why democrats don’t support unpopular things or why Biden didn’t just pack the court. I don’t mean to go hard on you but idk where all of these politically illiterate people come from on here. You guys all believe the exact same shit and know nothing about anything you talk about.

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Anonymous OP 20w

I know I’m sure you’re miss referencing another thing about newsome. It depends on what the bill was.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

“The wealthiest country in human history” but sixty percent of us live paycheck to paycheck. I’m one of those poor folk. College is expensive. What do democrats do? “We’ll forgive some loans” okay but why lower the price? It was way cheaper before! Energy is expensive because of data centers. I have to limit the AC. I can’t even afford new shoes, mine are coming off at the seams. I have to save my money so I can fork it over to my landlord. I am hungry all the damn time.

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Anonymous OP 20w

Richest country in human history. That’s a joke and you know it. Most of us are struggling.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

Fucking hell, and you accuse ME of being unmoved by evidence. Unbelievable. Step 1 of liberal argument: misinterpret every other damn thing I say. Step 2 of liberal argument: well democrats did some good things so they’re good right? Step 3: capitalism and “interventionism” is great actually. Step 4: profit?

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Anonymous OP 20w

Relative to the vast majority of the world we aren’t.

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Anonymous OP 20w

Wdym by living paycheck to paycheck this isn’t an official term, It depends on what you’re referencing? Democrats don’t have a dial that controls the price of college.

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Anonymous OP 20w

What have I misinterpreted? How about this, let’s just go claim by claim. Make what you feel like is a strong claim about something we disagreed about and we’ll go through it. That’s how you have convo.

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Anonymous OP 20w

I like how you also play down any meaningful policy. So true bro who cares about forgiving student loans you’re 100% clocked into the average person.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

I got this statistic from Sanders’s March 7, 2025 report in the health, education, labor and pensions committee. It is titled “the impact of living paycheck to paycheck: shorter lives, more stress”.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

Well that’s just dandy. I’ll play along. You’ve misinterpreted my iran war claim. My claim was this: democrats objected to the Iran war on the basis of due process, whereas they should have objected on the basis of not intervening on behalf of Israel. Similarly, democrats object to ICE activity on the basis of due process, while they should object to the existence of ICE itself.

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Anonymous OP 20w

In other words, democratic leaders objected more to the process of declaring war than to the war itself

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Anonymous OP 20w

Looking into the 60% there’s a lot of conflicting info about this. the Federal Reserve for example found that 54% of Americans have emergency savings to cover three months of expenses. Bankrate found that while 59% of Americans are uncomfortable with their level of emergency savings, 34% are living paycheck to paycheck.

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Anonymous OP 20w

The 60% number from what i can tell is from a survey but maybe sanders got it from somewhere else?

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Anonymous OP 20w

I didn’t misinterpret it’s kinda hard to tell statement is tied to another statement when we’re going back and forth. I still have the same take that saying due process doesn’t matter is limp is wild. They also are saying a variety of things depending on what democrat we’re referencing.

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Anonymous OP 20w

Ok I didn’t misinterpret your ice claim. Again I’ll ask you the same question is internal immigration enforcement inherently bad?

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Anonymous OP 20w

Ok let’s stick to a specific claim. I’m down for any of the claims you made or if you want to make a new one I’m down.

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Anonymous OP 20w

I didn’t misinterpret anything you’ve said I even responded to all of this lol.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

“You said 60% of people are living paycheck to paycheck, but this survey I found only says 34%, which is so much better” look at my proletariat dawg

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Anonymous OP 20w

At this point I just gotta say that you and I see the world fundamentally differently. Please do not just accept what your politicians have done. You deserve better! The American people deserve better! Demand better!

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Anonymous OP 20w

I never said it was better I said it was conflicting. You read so much into that for me to look bad lol, kinda telling.

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Anonymous OP 20w

It’s very telling you won’t explore a single claim you’ve made. You rather go from half truth to half truth to make a story. I hope you get better at engaging with people you disagree with in convos.

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Anonymous OP 20w

I’m glad you agree then. Obviously, there are other forms of civil engagement that deserve equal support, like pressuring municipal governments, unionizing, etc.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

Dude it’s just not worth it to converse with someone who thinks that 34% of people living paycheck to paycheck is a valid point. Even if that’s true, that’s still a lot! All i can say is sure whatever atp

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Anonymous #4 20w

100% agree

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Anonymous OP 20w

I never said it wasn't a lot. Instead of trying to make what I say evil why don't you actually respond to me lol? This how all of these convos go you can't respond to anything I say meaningfully so you act like I have some evil intent behind what I'm saying.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

Why don’t I actually respond to you? I’ll say it plainly: because it will not help my conditions the slightest. I won’t entertain liberalism because it doesn’t address what actually affects my life. You won’t entertain leftism: your messages have revealed that you believe the current system to be good at its core. You are either not affected by the things I am affected by, or you still have not deconstructed the myths of America. In either case, this conversation will do neither of us any good.

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Anonymous OP 20w

The difference is I’m actually articulating why I’m disagreeing with you, While you’re just making up what intentions I have when I say something. If I’m so off on what I’m saying then you should be able to articulate how I’m wrong. Don’t larp like you attempted to have a real convo. All this convo has been is you virtue signaling and me responding. You don’t care about these issues if you did we would be able to actually go point by point on something and have a real convo.

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Anonymous blue__wave 20w

The fact that I did exactly that and then you just go around and say “Newsom didn’t say that” and then “I’m sure you’re misunderstanding something else” (I’m not) and the cherry on top “America is the richest nation in history” (ridiculous). Sorry I’m not the #1 democrat glazer or whatever, but they’re known as ineffective for good reason. Democrats will win this election and then throw the next one in a never ending cycle which pushes this country further to the right.

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Anonymous OP 20w

This is a well-known phenomenon. For example, there haven’t been two consecutive presidents from the same party since Reagan and H.W. Bush. Appointing new people in unjust systems will not amount to any real change; the systems themselves must change. Since democrats can’t exist outside of the current systems, they won’t address the ills of those systems. It’s not good party policy, not to mention unfeasible for them.

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Anonymous OP 20w

So forgive my lowly self for not wanting a cultured debate with you, your highness, when it won’t help anything at all. I’d rather not waste my breath.

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Anonymous OP 20w

Ok you brought up the Newsom claim before I asked to go point by point. That’s when you were jumping around from random thing to random thing. If you want to talk about Newsom specifically I’m down what’s your specific claim? I’m not asking you to be the #1 democrat glazer I’m just asking you to make a point rather than doing the mind reading about what my intention is. I just think that’s super cringe. We can talk about America is the richest nation thing if you want?

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Anonymous OP 20w

I’m just asking you to pick one claim. Instead your doing the same thing were your making a bunch of random vague claims. Just pick one claim and we’ll talk about it. Literally any claim you want.

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Anonymous OP 20w

We can change the system without going to weird a weird isolationism socialism one party state. Why don’t we make more reasonable changes instead of taking one the most radical stances we can.

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Anonymous OP 20w

I’m sorry if you can’t communicate your ideas but then why should anyone listen to you? Your just dooming yourself to forever scream in the void bc you don’t want to have a hard convo.

1