Anonymous #1 21h

No, I don't support what they are doing in the middle east and I don't support what they are doing within our government.

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Anonymous #3 21h

1. Imperfect vs perfectly willed matters. And because we are told to and it is right and just regardless of the plan when you are praying for the sick, poor etc. 2. God doesnt sentence you to hell, dying in a state of severe sin without repentance etc does. 3. Yes 4. Thats more so old testament and a bit more loaded to answer here but needless to say slavery was dismissed as evil by christ and that there is no slave or free etc (Galations 3:28?) 5. Source? 6. Refer to imperfect vs perfect will

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Anonymous #3 21h

7. You can have no faith and be virtuous. Morality is inscribed into the hearts of all man.

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Anonymous #2 21h

Republicans don't hate us. I'd argue they like us more than democrats. They actually care about the survival of our faith and the preservation of our countries like France and Italy, and the preservation of our culture in the US.

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Anonymous OP 21h

That is simply not true. Especially historically. So let’s try that again, why are you conservative despite church teachings leaning toward more progressive economic theorems?

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Anonymous #2 21h

Yes it is true? Democrats overwhelmingly support migration into catholic towns from non-catholics. Baltimore and Detroit used to be hubs for catholics. Now they are declining rapidly in favor of muslim migration. I support social safety, of course. But I also support self-sustainability and find the democratic ideals of "rich people provide everything" to be completely unrealistic.

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Anonymous #2 21h

1. „We are told to“ „It is right“ is circular, what does that prove. Praying for the sick or poor does not do anything, besides, they can’t will themselves to be sick or poor, which means god must have made them so 2. God made the rules and consequences then forced everyone to compete with unequal hands, this is like saying Jigsaw never killed anyone cuz his victims are the ones that fell for his traps 3. How is that moral and why would god want humans to take that risk

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Anonymous OP 21h

The KKK which may I remind you is represented by southern protestants (baptists primarily) have been and still are a historically catholic organization. So again would you like to continue to deflect from my question or answer it?

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Anonymous #2 21h

The KKK is not catholic whatsoever. They burn crosses, and they have historically been extremely oppressive to catholics, and there is evidence of intimidation and violence.

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Anonymous #3 21h

1. Refer to the rest of part one, thinking that your will is greater than the will of a omnipotent being is also very prideful so even if it were just down to because we are told too that would still be sufficient enough. Keep in mind faith is critical to any religion. 2. He made the rules yes, but when you break the rules you are liable for what happens even in the natural world. This is nothing new. Comparing it to a horror movie villain is a swing and a miss. You are also neglecting the repet

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Anonymous #2 21h

Repentant part. 3.because much like God i believe everybody should have the freedom to choose. If you choose to walk a path in life that leads you away from the faith than so be it. Dont get confused and think it is malice to respect the desire of a free creature to be free.

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Anonymous OP 21h

NO SHIT THE KKK ISNT CATHOLIC can you read? I LITERALLY SAID THEY WERE PROTS AND ARE ONE OF THE FORMATS THEY GATHERED IN TO CHASE US OUT OF COMMUNITIES so again larper, why do you subscribe to conservative theorems against the greater wishes of the churh?

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Anonymous #2 21h

4. Why didnt he just ban slavery altogether if he had the power to do it, the knowledge to know why, and the love to want to. 5. If you truly think humanity started with Adam and Eve there is no point in arguing w you. Our species has existed for abt 300k years, why would he wait for almost that whole time then randomly pop up in the middle east 6. That doesnt give us free will, just an opportunity to have an influence on the outcomes of our lives with the permission of god

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Anonymous #2 21h

Sorry i see the confusin anti catholic organization was suppsed to be there. Anywho use the first half of my statement to fill in the gap for the second

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Anonymous #2 21h

You literally said they are a historically catholic organization.

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Anonymous #3 21h

4. Interfering with free will. 5. Adam and eve were not the only humans. There were others made after and the aging of the other is still nothing more than theory across the board. Even with carbon dating and the big bang some processes could have the appearance of being aged because again, omnipotent being. 6. That is free will your inability to comprehend imperfect vs perfect will and how humanity free will exists with it is a issue even i cant help you with.

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Anonymous #2 21h

The KKK isn't really much anymore. It is mostly old white people who still want the confederacy to come back. If you want to bring in history, they are also a historically democratic organization. Catholics today are not under threat from the KKK and so I do not use them as a reason to support democrats now. They simply don't carry political weight anymore.

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Anonymous OP 21h

My brother in christ there are there chapters of the klan in my home county. I grew up on a farm bud, i know shit when i smell it. So stop giving me bullshit and answer my question please.

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Anonymous #2 21h

Three chapters*

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Anonymous #2 21h

7. I agree, what I was asking is why should faith be seen as some automatically virtuous trait, it does not make you a good person by default, many people who believe very strongly in their religion have done horrible things, and to add to that, how does your faith in your religion trump someone else’s equivalent level of faith in another religion, that is, if yall are both equally convinced of your religion, how could you ever know who is right

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Anonymous #3 21h

We know when we die simply put. That is why religions have faith. We understand there are things we will be fully incapable of knowing and understanding in this form. And you may have to specify more, cause plenty of religions have morality overlaps when it comes to stealing and murder etc.

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Anonymous #2 21h

Freemason chapters also still exist. So do satanist chapters. They still don't have political sway.

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Anonymous OP 21h

And i very quickly corrected it although the very first half of my sentence distinctly marked them as prots with even a denomination specifier. Me thinks you are acting in bad faith to make catholics look like evangelicals.

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Anonymous OP 21h

If you think freemason chapters dont have sway i could maybe excuse that but as a catholic if you think satan has no influence or political sway even from his funny little edgelord groups who have even held prayers in town halls you are nothing more than a troll larp and it explains your unwillingness to actually answer my questions. Return to Rome prot.

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Anonymous #2 21h

1. You cant take the words of an omnipotent being and give them as evidence bruh, I dont believe in said being, you never proved her existence so how could I just take its words as truth 2. What would make god any different from jigsaw in practice, if both subject ppl to almost impossible tasks against their will, then deny responsibility for the suffering caused because it was ultimately the „fault of the victim“. Why should we accept these arbitrary rules and why is the punishment hell

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Anonymous #3 21h

1. You were still told to refer to the rest of part one and are choosing to hang up on the second part as if it alone is the reason. (It isnt as ive stated to you multiple times now) 2. God doesnt abduct you and put you in a deathtrap where the only way out is through self harm for starters, again find a better comparison if you wish to be taken seriously please. Because again you can have free will. Part of love is letting you use that freewill even if it means being away from him

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Anonymous #2 21h

You have free will*

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Anonymous #3 20h

In the highly unlikely case that two people somehow maintained equal levels of devotion to moral code of catholicism with equal sum of sin, repentance etc then naturally under our doctrine it is assumed that if for topics sake person one was catholic theyd go through purgatory etc and go to heaven so long as everything checks out. If person two was a

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Anonymous #2 20h

Like a jewish person, atheist etc, hypothetically according to our faith they technically still could go to heaven for living a good life under the principle of morality is written upon the heart of man so long as they didnt do certain heretical things etc according to my understanding of the cathechism and church teachings though i am a neophyte. Baptism and stuff need not be just the one done by water.

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Anonymous #4 20h

1. No. The non aggression principle is a pretty solid thing anybody can go by. Haumrabis code, the golden rule. Etc. 2. The Catholic Church has no preference for authority style it only cares that it is just. (The united states is not.) 3. Im not a conservative and op is either poorly catechized or a larp.

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Anonymous #2 20h

2a. The catholic church has some styles it outright despises however.

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Anonymous #2 20h

I believe the Catholic Church does have preference of authority style, proven throughout history. Even tho I have liked the previous popes and the way they’ve handled things. You’re obviously not a conservative, so these questions are for conservatives, which happens to be a good portion of Catholics, even if they’re more progressive than Baptist and Methodists. Not as progressive as Anglicans, or Episcopalians, tho.

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Anonymous #4 20h

You are entitled to believe that, and historically there may have been biases but the modern church is very clear on not endorsing any specific type of form of govt and instead focusing on ensuring that rulers dont have unchecked power and that the people are given just treatment.

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Anonymous #2 20h

1. Literally all you’ve said is that imperfect vs perfect will matters, if there is a set perfect plan, and the best you can do is pray to god to let you diverge slightly from that plan then do you really have free will? Why are only some prayers answered, and why are mainly small ones answered, like let me find my phone, but less so big ones, like let there be peace on earth, why pray before actually trying yourself to achieve what it is you want

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Anonymous #2 20h

2. Has any person, ever, chosen to be born? If you are alive then you were forced to be here whether you like it or not, and the death game is literally our lives because the rules apply at all times and you can die and go to hell at any time. In the same way the jigsaw games might require you to give up part of yourself, so does god in requiring us to restrict ourselves for her. You haven’t actually acknowledged the similarities and just saying cuz it’s a horror movie the comparison can’t work

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Anonymous #3 20h

Yes you still do. And just because certain events in the grand scheme of humanity are set to happen doesnt mean you dont have a choice in what part you play in it. As for why some prayers are answered and others arent thats a whole ted talk and a half i would encourage you to call and ask a priest about. They got office hours and like to talk about theology. They are nerdy. Especially since wed have to breakdown the types of prayers, and all that. Its literally like a couple weeks long class

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Anonymous #3 20h

Equating life to being a deathtrap where the only choices are mutilation and death once again is so juvenille and a very poor comparison once again. Apples to oranges fallacy. Life is a gift, or an opportunity if you want to take a truly neutral view. Your take of it being nothing more than a deathtrap is nihilistic nonsense.

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Anonymous #3 20h

You can reject everything abt the jigsaw comparison but everything abt the fact that god makes you just one day appear on this world and then have to follow arbitrary rules your entire existence just to avoid the threat of eternal suffering is the reality of it regardless of whether or not some horror movie shows that

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Anonymous #3 20h

It doesnt show that at all, it shows you have a poor grasp on religion and morality at best.

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Anonymous #2 20h

Strawman after strawman bruh, I didnt say its not a death trap or that we shdnt be grateful to be alive. Im just saying none of us first appeared here by choice, and luckily we are in positions where we can appreciate our lives, but not everyone gets to do that, such as the people god chooses to be born into slavery or with horrible diseases, to tell someone who is suffering that life is a gift they need to appreciate is incredibly ignorant, a loving god would not put people here just to suffer

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Anonymous #3 20h

Its not a strawman when you are giving me nothing but a repeated petulant fallacy; that is once again nothing more than a negative nihilistic interpretation on life masquerading as a religiously neutral rebuttal to religion.

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Anonymous #3 20h

So in some ways, yes life is a literal deathtrap. In other ways as I started to explain, it is more figurative in that what is taken from us by the conditions of our births and the rules god commands us to follow is not our lives or physical health but rather our opportunities, experiences, and joy.

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Anonymous #3 20h

Life isnt a deathtrap, you are just an emotionally stunted troll who has issues with religion. Sorry about whatever or whoever hurt you but you should maybe focus on ditching the absolute dogshit outlook you have towards life. Because its putting on the blinders preventing you from seeing the answer to your question was given.

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Anonymous #2 17h

Republicans are not against the church redistributing resources to support the poor. Republicans are in favor of VOLUNTARY distribution, I.e. you are welcome to donate however much you want to whatever charitable causes you wish to support. Republicans are against FORCED redistribution of your resources through mandatory taxes you’ll be imprisoned for not paying in order to fund programs the government wishes to support.

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Anonymous #3 17h

A lot of these questions show that you just don’t understand what Catholics actually believe, the biggest of which you seem to be missing is the concept of free will. God has a plan for everyone to reach heaven, but he gives each of us the choice to follow or not follow it, all the time, every day. We choose hell when we choose to reject God through acts of sin. ‘Just having faith’ does not make a person virtuous.

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Anonymous #4 16h

It is literally impossible to enforce beliefs, and as both a Catholic and a conservative, it is morally wrong to try to. But there is a difference between society dictating beliefs and tolerating behaviors. We don’t tolerate honor killings in our society, because our moral code categorizes that as murder, even if other peoples’ beliefs don’t. We don’t think society should tolerate abortion, for the same reason.

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Anonymous #5 16h

Im asking these types of questions because I truly dont understand why you believe what you do, but the only responses yall have to just about anything use evidence from the bible or are otherwise contradictory in some way. Using a religions main scripture to justify it will only ever hold up to someone who already believes in the religion, it really just kind of proves yalls inabilities to think outside of the frameworks you have been taught to view the world through.

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Anonymous #5 16h

In American society it is generally accepted that being „God fearing“ or a church goer is something that makes you automatically good, even tho these are not inherently good or bad. In the same way, when people talk about their relationship or journey with god you are expected to have some kind of automatic respect for them, even tho, again this doesn’t really mean anything good on its own; if anything it is negative

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Anonymous #5 16h

So, when you vote for conservative policies based on beliefs that are dictated by your religious code/views: antiabortion, Bible verses in schools, removal of trans rights, not supporting/actively restricting gay rights, or anything else: that’s not enforcing religious beliefs?

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Anonymous #5 16h

But that is enforcing beliefs. You cant use your religion to create an objective moral code without enforcing your beliefs. If your religious moral code calls abortion murder that doesnt mean you can use religion to justify a ban on it; you would have to prove why you think its bad without using religion as a reason, which you cant do without contradicting yourself, since yall push harder for abortion bans than any form of childcare, and on top of that yall want other contraceptives banned too

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Anonymous #4 16h

I don’t want bible verses in public schools. But generally speaking, correct, that is not enforcing beliefs. Just like when I say our society shouldn’t tolerate female genital mutilation, that’s not me forcing my beliefs on anyone else. Do you understand the difference in concept between a belief and a practice?

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Anonymous #3 16h

If that were the standard, can you make a non-religious scientific argument for why consensual duels to the death shouldn’t be legal too? I can and I have made completely nonreligious arguments against abortion, but that’s not what I’m trying to debate here. I’m asking if you understand the difference between what I mean as a belief and a practice?

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Anonymous #5 16h

For example, it’s impossible to outlaw racism. There’s no way we can legally force someone to believe black people are equal. But we *can* refuse to tolerate racist actions. We can make it illegal for businesses to turn away black customers, or refuse to hire black employees, or to pay black employees less for the same work. That’s the difference between enforcing a belief vs tolerating a practice.

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Anonymous #3 15h

I would argue that that very much depends on what part of America you live in, in my personal experience there are a lot of places in America where that will automatically get you labeled a bad person. I’m not sure what bible-thumping state you’re from, but it sounds like you grew up surrounded by evangelical Protestants, and are just assuming that Catholics are basically the same thing.

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Anonymous #5 15h

I think you have some lack of understanding here. But what can I expect from a religious conservative. Thank you, you do truly believe you’re right and everyone else is wrong.

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Anonymous #5 15h

Tell me what you think “enforcement” is? Not just what YOU think, what your understanding of it as a legal and political concept is?

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Anonymous #5 15h

Republicans are so against it eh, is that why they have no issues with sending plenty of our tax money to fund a genocide in the Holy Land? Or for the weaponization of police forces? Whos face is the money on the money again? Lets hit you with the classic “Give to Caesar what is Caesars” when it is within reason and with the proper mechanics for distribution. Distributionism and voluntaryism are two different forms of govt.

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Anonymous #5 15h

Like if you were to fill that republican spot with libertarian in each and every spot you said it in i could see understand, but you are literally spouting off poor to blatantly untrue reasons for having your political affiliation.

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Anonymous #4 14h

Enforcement is the ensuring that rules are followed and that violators of said rules are punished. Now your turn, can you explain to me the difference between a belief and a practice?

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Anonymous #3 14h

I’m not even talking about the ‘why’, I’m talking about the ‘what’. You don’t know *what* we believe, and are trying to wrap your head around why we believe things that we don’t believe to begin with. As for the why, I would ask you, why do you believe the things you believe?

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Anonymous #2 13h

There is a split amongst conservatives, particularly younger ones, on the issue of Israel, that’s where you get like the Tucker Carlson faction. But historically the pro-Israel conservatives and people on the left gang up to brand anyone on the right who opposes Israel as an anti-Semitic Nazi, so that’s how the pro-Israeli conservatives keep their grip over the Republican Party. And only fairly recently really in the last election cycle or so did the progressive left turn so hard against Israel.

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Anonymous #2 13h

So you as a non conservative are going to tell me as a conservative that you know what conservatives believe better than I do, am I understanding that right?

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Anonymous #5 12h

So that’s what I was talking about? Laws and policies are enforcements? And what you vote for ensures enforcing your beliefs onto others.

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Anonymous #4 12h

Okay, so that’s a no, you don’t understand the difference between a belief and a practice. Because I’m not for enforcing beliefs. I’m for enforcing practices.

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Anonymous #4 12h

So by your own standard, wouldn't banning people from practicing honor killings and female genital mutilation and arranged child marriages in accordance with their beliefs also be you enforcing your beliefs on those people? How is wanting abortions banned any different? The fact that you don't see the hypocrisy of accusing someone else of thinking they're right and everyone else is wrong is astounding.

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Anonymous #5 9h

How about we can say a universal understanding of “murder is bad” and you not bringing cherry picked examples that you think carry your point when “murder bad” isn’t a specific moral code or belief defined by religion. Fucking moron

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Anonymous #5 9h

Okay, so you don’t understand or see your own hypocrisy and how you’re twisting the narrative, as Christians/catholics and conservatives do, to make yourself see right. This is why people hate you guys, ya know?

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Anonymous #4 9h

Whose definition of murder?

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Anonymous #4 9h

The only difference is that when your beliefs say something is bad, you think it’s fine to ban it, but when my beliefs say something is bad, you think me wanting to ban it is oppressing you. Which is why you can’t actually address my point and have to start making accusations of ‘cherry picking’. Because when you do it, it’s fine

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Anonymous #4 9h

What am I twisting, exactly? It kind of seems like you just don’t have an argument and are resorting to trying to personally attack me and rile me up. It won’t work.

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Anonymous #5 9h

You can keep pretending, but I would suggest looking in the mirror

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Anonymous #5 9h

Im saying you are either a larp, or ignorant of church teachings and politics in general.

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Anonymous #5 9h

Ah so you admit now that they do take our taxes for a genocide then? So redistributing tax money for bombs for genocides is okay with you but no lunch debts and meals for the poor funded by tax money is scary and dystopian right? Yeah, you are talking out of your ass and regret wasting my time with you.

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Anonymous #2 9h

You don’t think theres any overlap in ideology between conservative and libertarian beliefs on the topic of private charity vs public welfare systems? You’re kidding right?

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Anonymous #5 9h

Im saying you are a troll larp who refused to actually answer people and deflects to some other bullshit in a mental gymnastic attempt to justify your hypocritical statements.

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Anonymous #5 9h

Like if you want to argue that conservatives want to spend more on policing than libertarians do, then sure, but this discussion started on the question of the progressive idea of distributionism, so I figured that meant we were talking about the context of social services and safety nets.

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Anonymous #5 9h

Lol they blocked me for that, RIP discussion

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