Trans Talk on Sidechat | I hate to start discourse but I’m really starting to hate the terms “amab” and “afab” and how people refer to themselves as such YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU WERE ASSIGNED AT BIRTH YOU ARE TRANSGENDER!!! YOU WANT TO TAKE CROSS SEX HORMONES!!!

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Trans Talk 1d

I hate to start discourse but I’m really starting to hate the terms “amab” and “afab” and how people refer to themselves as such YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU WERE ASSIGNED AT BIRTH YOU ARE TRANSGENDER!!! YOU WANT TO TAKE CROSS SEX HORMONES!!!

113

Anonymous 1d

if someone calls me amab i kill them. it's that simple. /j

Anonymous 1d

I get that and I don’t disagree, but I think it depends on the individual. My entire perspective has been informed by being afab and I don’t feel like I can write it off now. I feel like it’s dependent on what the individual feels they identify with.

Anonymous 22h

it's used on non-binary people so often to make a false dichotomy, it's so gross and it even plagues some parts of the community. idc if someone uses it for themself, but we aren't "afab/amab NBs," so don't call us that 💀

Anonymous 1d

i honestly prefer calling myself female-to-male or even just female than "afab". i think a big part is the way we've changed how we use it and what it's come to mean and imply

🍣

Anonymous 1d

Real as fuck I try to identify with that as little as I possibly can

Anonymous 20h

I gotta disagree. I’m ftm, binary trans man, but to me growing up as a woman is a huge part of my identity. Would I have rather had a boy childhood? Absolutely. But that didn’t happen. I am proud to be afab, because it just means a label I used doesn’t suit me anymore. And that’s super fine by me 👍

Anonymous 1d

I agree!!!

Anonymous 17h

You can be transgender without wanting to do HRT or get surgeries, I’m nonbinary it’s only my gender identity that I’m wanting to change

Anonymous 22h

How someone else refers to themselves does not matter. I was raised as a Pentecostal girl. I’m a man but that doesn’t erase how that experience impacted me. It had a HUGE influence on my life.

Anonymous

#5 1d

Also not for nothing I’ve met some very misogynistic trans men and I feel that can only happen if they renounce their experience in girlhood

Anonymous

#5 1d

as a transmasc, i wear my feminine childhood with pride. especially when it comes to feministic issues and debates. i hate when people treat me like i dont understand how it feels to be targeted for being a woman just because im not one at this point in my life. i still remember what i was like to be sexualized at 6. i remember the rage and fear of roe v wade being overturned because i am a uterus owner.

Anonymous

#6 1d

ignoring those experiences or getting invalidated for speaking on those subjects as a man helps no one

Anonymous

#7 1d

as a trans man i consider myself to be female and also a binary man, and i feel like that's fine

Anonymous

#6 1d

Yeah and I think we have our own kind of unique perspective because we did girlhood but can see it from a more objective standpoint

-1

Anonymous

#5 1d

i’ve met misogynistic trans men who do/don’t identify as afab, it has nothing to do with “renouncing their experience in girlhood” (something not all trans men even have). in fact, some trans men/mascs use their “experience in girlhood” as an excuse to be (trans)misogynistic.

Anonymous

#7 1d

calling myself afab does feel stupid tbh, but i still use it in some contexts if it's relevant & thats the language that the other person understands

Anonymous

#3 23h

MANY such cases, unfortunately

Anonymous

#8 23h

Same (just joking as well (or am I) )

Anonymous

#3 23h

I think I just mean to say that a trans men who is also a misogynist is like the craziest thing I can think of lol I can’t understand it

Anonymous

#5 23h

If you think misogyny from trans men can only happen if they renounce girlhood, then that would imply cis men are all inherently misogynistic and forever will be since they never experienced girlhood at all. Trans men after all are men, so what you’re saying is that misogyny from men comes from a denouncement of girlhood Correct me if I’m reading into what you said wrong, but I think from what I do understand is that the logic doesn’t play out

Anonymous

#5 23h

Its because some trans men who identify closely with their "afabness" feel like they have more of a connection to womanhood than trans women, which is transmisogynistic. I say this as a transmasc.

Anonymous

#5 23h

If you think being "afab" automatically makes someone safer and less misogynistic, then what do you think of "amabs" (incl. transfems)? Automatically more dangerous? This is why it's transmisogynistic. It is terf rhetoric to prejudge someone based on sex.

Anonymous

OP 23h

also part of this logic is that “experiencing girlhood” would make someone not misogynistic, which ignores the reality that many women ascribe to and perpetuate misogyny themselves.

Anonymous

#3 23h

Oh absolutely. That’s yet another aspect of why #5s statement doesn’t really make sense to me. Maybe I’m misreading it and it’ll be cleared up, but as of rn, it’s a little bizarre

Anonymous

#6 23h

Consider how many transfems do you know that "wear their masc childhood with pride"? I don't deny they exist. But often that rhetoric is used as a cudgel against transfems to call them violent perverts, not real women. Just a diff perspective to consider

Anonymous

#1 23h

Oh I’ll flat out say I’m transfem yet never have seen other transfems say that. Did I take some things away from my childhood? I guess, but really I was just bullied for not being like the other boys. I didn’t really have a masc childhood outside of empty attempts to try and fit in through stuff like sports

Anonymous

OP 23h

Ok yeah I think it just came out of me wrong that’s my bad. Everything yall are saying is really interesting though this seems to be a field I know less about, so forgive me if my opinions are off-base or potentially harmful that’s not my intention.

Anonymous

#5 23h

All good, it’s why I just wanted to check in and make sure it wasn’t something you were trying to say. Don’t wanna put words in your mouth or anything, and I too have said things that came out wrong so it’s all good

Anonymous

#5 23h

Thank you for being open-minded :)

Anonymous

OP 23h

I gotchu and thank you for being receptive. Bottom line is we’re all on the same team and I want to learn

Anonymous

OP 23h

And thats exactly what ive heard from all of my transfem friends

Anonymous

#1 23h

Thank you! It’s not always easy to give grace to people and I appreciate it

Anonymous

#9 23h

i’m a trans man and male 🤷‍♂️

Anonymous

#5 23h

I think I need more trans friends, I’m young and I haven’t made it too far out of my sphere yet. I appreciate the respectful conversation :) I’m going to pet my cat now because she is getting mad at me

Anonymous

#5 23h

Having trans friends is probably the best thing ive done for my mental health, highly recommend. I wish you luck on that journey. Go pet your kitty :D

Anonymous

#1 23h

Got me trans friends. Got me estrogen. Read me transfeminism theory. Simple as

Anonymous

#5 23h

Dude you deserve all the grace in the world, don’t worry. You seem super chill :)

Anonymous

#1 22h

Also thank you for fighting against transmisogyny! So often it feels as if us transfems are speaking against it on our own, so having someone pushing back against it who isn’t transfem means a lot <3

Anonymous

#1 22h

trans women are real women ! being trans is complex, and no trans person deserves to feel ashamed for any part of who they are or who they used to be. (i do understand that some people are awful to trans women, and i hate that. but i wish for transfems to be able to be themselves and recognize their backgrounds if they wish too. they are absolutely worthy feminists and im sure they also bring important conversations and experiences to the table)

Anonymous

#6 22h

i do not believe that transmascs have more claim to feminine experiences than transfems. i, as a transmasc, have a hard time balancing wanting to be seen as a boy and also wanting all (again, for the people in back,) ALL women to know that i’m on their side. i see so much hate for men as a general, and i get scared to be lumped in with them. this is all i was trying to get across in my original comment

Anonymous

OP 22h

Of course, it's the least I could do. I always want to have my sisters' backs 🩷

Anonymous

#11 22h

good for you man

Anonymous

#6 22h

The reality is that to be seen as a man is to be seen as a threat to many women, and thats a reality that we as transmasc have to accept, due to the threat that the patriarchy has posed to women for centuries. It may feel unfair that we hve to inherit this

Anonymous

#1 22h

but its how it is and we need to take it in stride. We must continue to uplift and support the women in our lives, especially the trans ones, and give them space if need be. Fear or uncertainty around men is not something we should take personally,

Anonymous

#1 22h

its not an affront to our identities, its just the reality of what women have to do to stay safe. I hope this helps you, from one transmasc to another

Anonymous

#12 20h

I disagreed with the OG post but this I do agree with. Unless ur talking to a doctor literally no one needs to know your agab unless you wanna share it, and it’s especially weird with nonbinary people bc it almost becomes another pseudo-binary classification

Anonymous

#14 19h

Agree with you guys

Anonymous

#14 19h

I love being downvoted about my identity thanks guys 😌

Anonymous

#14 19h

I’m with you. Trying to police how others identify within the lgbt community is so gross

Anonymous

#13 19h

Right like i get that some people don’t use certain labels and that’s fine! But don’t tell me that I can’t identify with that on my own, yk?

Anonymous

#14 19h

Exactly

Anonymous

#14 18h

Thats okay that you feel that way. Just understand that reclaiming your birth sex is a privilege not offered to trans women. Notice how everyone comfortable reclaiming their sex in this thread is a transmasc/trans man. Trans women are called perverts who

-3

Anonymous

#1 18h

wear womanhood as a costume just for being assigned male. Reclaiming a boyhood (that many trans women didnt even have, many had a girlhood) is often not feasible for trans women

-2

Anonymous

#1 18h

and when people don't understand that, it can lead to ignorance concerning transmisogyny. That could be why you are being downvoted. Please understand the other side of this. (Separated replies is because of this annoying word limit!)

-1

Anonymous

#11 18h

i'm not on t yet (but pass as male and have excessive testosterone for a female) so i don't really feel i have a claim yet to "male", as it's more the goal rn. i only really respond to "male" about things being about men

Anonymous

#1 18h

Girl I’m not saying you can’t. I won’t judge anyone for reclaiming their birth sex. If it’s part of your story that’s so cool! It’s not privileged, just who I am. And I appreciate if you don’t look down on me for it

Anonymous

#14 18h

Like I fear you’re fighting the wrong people in these comments tbh?

Anonymous

#1 18h

as a trans man who had more of a boyhood or childhood than a girlhood, trans women can reclaim their childhood as a girlhood, or a boyhood, or whatever feels comfortable. it's weird that you're bringing this up in response to someone talking about their own identity

Anonymous

#14 17h

not taking sides, but you definitely misunderstood their point: they’re saying trans men/mascs will much more commonly identify with AGAB while trans women/fems will rarely do the same. some (not all) people who identify with their AGAB will admit to doing so because of broader (often transmisogynistic) beliefs & rhetoric pushed by TERFs

Anonymous

#1 17h

like it's weird to refer to someone else's preference as a privelege. you wouldnt say a trans woman who doesnt have bottom dysphoria is "priveleged" as compared to one who doesnt, because that would be weird to say. everyone has unique experiences as trans people

Anonymous

#13 17h

My argument is moreso that AGAB is an irrelevant label to hold onto. For example, if someone is transmasc, that label already communicates the exact same information

Anonymous

#9 17h

*does

Anonymous

#9 17h

already said this, but their point isn’t “I think trans women/fems *shouldn’t* identify with AGAB,” it’s that *can’t* do so without their validity being questioned, to the point that they may be called a predator or told they’re faking being trans.

Anonymous

#9 17h

trans men/mascs that identify with AGAB sometimes (not always) fall for TERF rhetoric on socialization & use their (valid) experience about their own socialization to claim everyone else experienced a certain boyhood/girlhood & that they all act in certain ways because of it

Anonymous

#9 17h

I don’t agree with how they responded to someone’s genuine identity with “make sure you aren’t a bigot!” but that is a genuine, worrying trend among some groups :/

Anonymous

#14 17h

I'm not a girl, dont call me that. This is just what ive noticed from talking to trans women, and I never at any point said I looked down on you. Just educating about transfeminism and transmisogyny.

Anonymous

#12 17h

Afab and amab are not identities, it's an irrelevant assignment that happened years ago that is often wrong and violent for trans and intersex people. You can identify with having a boyhood or girlhood. Is it really so wrong to educate about transmisogyny?

Anonymous

#1 17h

it sounded like you thought they were inherently being transmisogynistic by explaining their internal identity through an imperfect label (all labels are imperfect). I disagree with the basis of why you began explaining to this specific person.

Anonymous

#12 17h

he* mb

Anonymous

#12 17h

I guess I thought he wanted to know why he was possibly being downvoted and wanted to offer an explanation while also trying to educate about a common pitfall into terf rhetoric, like you said. Sorry for overstepping.

Anonymous

#15 15h

True I prob should have been a bit more clear that not every trans person takes hormones or wants surgeries. Ig my broader point was that, if you’re more comfortable as a different gender, why tf are you still identifying with something you no longer are

Anonymous

OP 13h

I guess I’m just one of those people who separate sex from gender when it comes to my transition When I was first out in the queer community that’s what I saw everyone else do and I kinda like it for myself

Anonymous

#15 13h

But like if someone else doesn’t like to be called something that I do, then I just won’t call them that

Anonymous

#6 9h

as a trans guy i really think a lot of trans women probably had more feminine experiences than i ever have. i passed as a boy when i was a little kid, i've never been catcalled, i've never been forced to wear a dress, i've never really experienced being a woman in any social capacity. i was a girl for a little bit as a kid but i was always a tomboy and the place i grew up was accepting enough of that that i had a very similar childhood to most of my male friends. i have no claim at all yk

Anonymous

#1 6h

It’s just sth I say, like people say “guys” or “bro.” I like to even the playing field. Sorry if I offended, not intentional

Anonymous

OP 6h

That’s fair, but for me it *does* hold meaning. Obviously I’m not going into the streets hollering about being born female, but I like the fact that I had a female experience growing up because of who it turned me into. So it is important to me. At the end of the day words are all made up, we use whatever we feel fits us 🤷‍♂️

Anonymous

#1 6h

I appreciate this but also the way you went about it was patronizing. Genuinely maybe next time just say: “maybe you’re being downvoted because of [x]?” It made me feel even worse than I already felt seeing people disagree with how I identify. Idk words have consequences and all that

Anonymous

#12 6h

Reading the replies I understand their intentions, but it just felt like another attack at first tbh. Like I was talking about my experience as a transmasc person who still holds onto “afab” for myself, and they came in going “yeah ok what about trans women who CANT?? And you’re privileged??” Made me feel icky and clouded the point