Anonymous #1 2w

Why do you think it’s pretend? The WHO and most reputable health organizations validate the fact that trans people aren’t pretending and that their gender is real

13

Anonymous #2 2w

Because it simply is pretend. Just because I think something is one way does not make it that way in reality.

8

Anonymous #2 2w

It’s not pretend. Idk why people say it is because it is literally biological. I wrote a whole academic paper on this in college!

20

Anonymous sour_pickle 2w

And I hope they laughed at you when you turned it in.

-7

Anonymous #1 2w

I got a 98 on it :)

26

Anonymous #1 2w

Your ignorance blinds you, mate.

29

Anonymous #3 2w

This is true! Not a justification of the action but sociologically true

13

Anonymous #3 2w

that makes sense

10

Anonymous #1 2w

besides ignoring the facts around trans people and the science behind it, i’m curious why you think it’s okay to refuse to respect someone’s basic identity just because they have different beliefs than you. if i were to call you by the wrong name, i wouldn’t keep calling you that after you asked me not to just because i don’t believe that’s your name. it’s basic interpersonal respect. also, trans people you see online aren’t representative of all trans people

32

Anonymous sour_pickle 2w

i did a presentation on this topic for a college psych class :) professor loved it

20

Anonymous OP 2w

Mine was for literature!🫶

15

Anonymous OP 2w

It’s not that they have different beliefs, it’s that they are trying to force their (once again) make pretend world view on me. I don’t care if they think they are some other gender, I care that they are trying make me say or believe what they do, which I don’t, and I won’t. Also the “science” of trans people is laughable.

-5

Anonymous #1 2w

Someone’s never done their research. I hate to break it to you but the news outlets don’t count!!

18

Anonymous #1 2w

Why is respect specifically “earned”, and what earns respect? Would you refuse to call someone by a preferred name (not even pertaining to trans people, say someone likes going by their middle name) just because they didn’t “earn” your respect?

21

Anonymous #1 2w

i don’t think it’s fair to say their worldview is make pretend. it’s no more fair than me saying the same of religion or something similar. i really do think a lot of the hostilities around this topic could be solved if both sides are willing to listen to the other. is there a reason you think your worldview is the only correct one?

15

Anonymous #1 2w

Nobody is forcing their beliefs. They have every right to exist that you do. Not to mention Christian’s are notorious for Bible-thumping and calling it “evangelism”

10

Anonymous #1 2w

The consensus of psychologists, biologists, anthropologists and on is laughable because it doesn’t mesh well with your pre-conceived beliefs?

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Anonymous #1 2w

#1, I hate to say it (actually I don’t), but you’re highly undereducated and ignorant.

9

Anonymous #5 2w

Periodddd, #5

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Anonymous #5 2w

yeah i’m a bit concerned by #1’s blatant disregard for professional research. trying to figure out why

12

Anonymous sour_pickle 2w

Reality is that you’re born a certain way, and even after surgery you’ll still be that way, just with a surgery change. “Researching” and reading articles that are objectively false isn’t beneficial to anyone. If you decided one day you were a dog, you wouldn’t be a dog. You’d simply just be a person who convinced themselves they were a dog. Thinking you are something and actually being that are two different things. Maybe that’s something your liberal arts teacher forgot to mention.

0

Anonymous #5 2w

Earning respect entails respecting others and not demanding things like everyone owes you something. If I asked someone to say my name the way I like it they are still free to say something else. It doesn’t give me the right to demand they call me that and only that because I want it that way.

-1

Anonymous OP 2w

Worldviews based in reality are a lot easier to analyze and agree or disagree on. My worldview isn’t the only one. But there are some worldviews that can’t agree on the baselines of reality. The trans argument is one of those.

-1

Anonymous #1 2w

How are they objectively false? People experience gender dysphoria, something psychologist across the board affirm the existence of. They, again across the board, conclude the best treatment is to transition, whether it be socially or medically. Also, I’m curious what you’d say about the hijras of India, sworn virgins of Albania, two spirit peoples of America. These categories, neither man or woman, were all “objective”, obvious things to these peoples

18

Anonymous #1 2w

You know your personal reality is different than someone else’s right? It is relative and subjective. It’s quite literally based on perspective. You know nothing of which you speak. Shame.

13

Anonymous #1 2w

Just as you demand them that they dress a certain way and act the “way they are born”? Your view here is contradictory

16

Anonymous #1 2w

Everybody “boo” that man. BOOO🍅🍅🍅🍅🍅🍅🍅🍅🍅

0

Anonymous #1 2w

Right now, you’re kinda not being respectful of others though🌝 respect is a two-way street.

5

Anonymous #5 2w

There’s the problem right there. If you actually dig into the numbers, those that go through with a transition are highly likely to detransition. That’s because it wasn’t the right treatment. There’s going to be a large swing back in the future where we look back and realize that perpetuating these ideas were extremely harmful to people.

0

Anonymous #1 2w

You’re presupposing an objective reality, something that any philosophy class will tell you is not exactly true.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Fun fact, before birth, we were all women up until the point where the Y-chromosome kicked in!

4

Anonymous #5 2w

No, once again, I don’t care how people dress. But just because you dress up as the other gender doesn’t make you that, and I’m not going to affirm that. And if y’all’s version respect is simply going along with people’s delusions then I’m not going to be respectful. It’s simply wrong and that’s kinda the end of it. OP asked why I think this way and I’ve answered it.

0

Anonymous #1 2w

External factors are actually the reason for detransition in most cases

17

Anonymous #1 2w

Do you know what a delusion is or are you just using that because it’s a buzzword that’s been spoon fed to you by right-wing media?

1

Anonymous #1 2w

You can disagree and still be respectful. 🌝 did your parents never teach you?

7

Anonymous #1 2w

How is it wrong? You can’t just call something wrong and not justify why lmao.

11

Anonymous #1 2w

the detransitioning argument has been proven false numerous times. statistics show that medically necessary procedures are actually regretted more than gender-affirming surgeries. same with tattoos. i’m curious where you’re getting your information and which sources you consider to be false. you’re also still not seeing that other people’s worldviews have value. you should try to understand those who disagree with you and see where they’re coming from

10

Anonymous sour_pickle 2w

Do you have a single good argument or are you just going to spam stupid liberal talking points? I don’t watch legacy media and I’m using words that match how these people act. It’s delusion.

-2

Anonymous #5 2w

Wait until he finds out about the job of SRY on the y-chromosome and the role of DMRT1 and FOXL2.

1

Anonymous #1 2w

Explain why they are stupid, don’t just state it. This is why you aren’t being taken seriously, you legitimately don’t know how to reason

8

Anonymous OP 2w

I’ve absolutely tried to see where they are coming from, however after listening I think it’s ridiculous.

-1

Anonymous #1 2w

I do have good arguments. Again, I am very educated on this topic. You’ve quite literally missed half of what I said because you’re too busy flapping your own jaw.

8

Anonymous #1 2w

Do you know what FOXL2, sndPOA, and SRY are? Do you know the timeline of genes kicking in inside the womb is? Do you know the biology and psychology behind transgenderism? Gender is a spectrum. It is a societal construct, sex is biological but it isn’t as simple as “male” and “female”. Have you ever heard of a polygenic trait?

3

Anonymous #1 2w

maybe i could offer you another shot at it? i’m trans myself and willing to educate people on it

9

Anonymous sour_pickle 2w

Ok well I’m going to end this here. I really don’t care what your liberal professors teach at your liberal university. I’m going to stand by the fact that you cannot simply will a change into existence, and that you cannot expect others to accept delusion. Maybe one day you’ll all come out of the psychosis that has paralyzed your ability to look at something and go “ya that’s completely and utter bs.”

-3

Anonymous #1 2w

“Biological sex is a spectrum that is impacted and driven by many factors like hormones, environment, genes, and experiences. Sexual identity is more than a social construct, like many political and religious leaders present it to be. It is an ever-growing mosaic of the previously mentioned factors.”

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Anonymous #1 2w

Babe, I researched this myself. Also, don’t use terms that you clearly don’t know the meaning of. Psychosis is something entirely different

6

Anonymous #1 2w

If your only defense is “liberal this”, “liberal that”, you have no argument. That’s just a logical fallacy

11

Anonymous #1 2w

In the brain, the sdnPOA, or “the sexually dimorphic nucleus of the preoptic area” (Sun 3), is said to be responsible for sexual behavior

4

Anonymous #1 2w

Later in life, the genes DMRT1 and FOXL2 also play a role in determining sex. “If these genes stop functioning, gonads can change and exhibit characteristics of the opposite sex” (Sun 2). Based on this, scientists have discovered that it is possible for an individual’s biological sex to change on its own.

7

Anonymous #1 2w

Sun, Simone and Michael D. Lemonick. “Stop Using Phony Science to Justify Transphobia” Scientific American, 13, June 2019. https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/. And here’s the source for those quotations :)

5

Anonymous #1 2w

So rather than engage with argument, you just call it “liberal”, lmao. Also, you still haven’t explained why it’s “utter bs,” you’ve just stated that you’re born a certain way and never explained exactly why you can’t change it.

13

Anonymous sour_pickle 2w

Exactly, sex itself isnt a rigid thing, it’s just a categorization we give to certain characteristics.

14

Anonymous #5 2w

you guys really need to stop bothering with this guy. coming from experience, it literally does not matter how many verified facts, science, research etc that you give him. he’s going to continue believing whatever it is he wants to believe. he’s not actually listening to anything you are saying because he simply doesn’t want to. it all goes in one ear and out the other.

2

Anonymous #7 2w

We know. Doesn’t mean I won’t defend someone

1

Anonymous #1 2w

if someone told you “hey please dont make loud sounds around me, i have ptsd” would you also ignore that? how do you think multiple special surgeries were made for transgender people if they hadnt been entirely backed by science, especially in face of huge adversity?

24

Anonymous #10 2w

i do see where you’re coming from. there usually is much more to it than just “i feel like a man,” but there’s definitely cases like that. a lot of us for example have gender dysphoria, where, psychologically, we feel an intense disconnect from our body’s secondary sex characteristics. as one of the people that suffer from this i can tell you it isn’t fun. the treatment for it is transitioning. studies have also shown some biological factors can influence this too

4

Anonymous OP 2w

while i’m not super educated on the biological factors, there is science behind it all that is still being studied. the main thing is recognizing that these “feelings” people have are real and can’t really be ignored

2

Anonymous OP 2w

Thank you for responding. I do know that gender dysphoria is a real thing. I can’t imagine how odd it must be to feel that way. But I’d say that the solution is not to physically make yourself look more like the other gender. It’s better to address the root of the issue. We recognize that it’s not supposed to be that way, so allowing that discomfort to take hold of our decisions seems like the opposite of how we should handle it

4

Anonymous OP 2w

Would you be able to give examples of why else is involved besides these feelings?

2

Anonymous #10 2w

the root of the issue is that the person’s body does not match their internal sense of gender. biology is a very complex thing, and i don’t think it’s far-fetched to say that some people could be born with a brain that resembles a gender different than the body they got. there is no evidence whatsoever that therapy or medication can alleviate gender dysphoria. and i am also telling you as a trans person myself it simply doesn’t.

6

Anonymous #10 2w

sure! it’s different for everyone, but in my case, i also feel intense discomfort around people seeing me or referring to me as a woman. it’s why i changed my name, so i would no longer be associated with a woman’s name. it’s usually more than just a disconnect from the body. it’s a disconnect from how you’re perceived. and it can be very painful

5

Anonymous #10 2w

and even if it did, there is a word we have for that and it is called conversion therapy, which is extremely unethical and proven to do unimaginable harm to everyone who goes through with it. also i don’t see a problem with people transitioning if it helps them. gender affirming care has proven to be very effective at alleviating gender dysphoria, and i personally would not be here without it. i am infinitely happier than i once was.

6

Anonymous #10 2w

transitioning is ultimately the only treatment for these feelings. that can be through changing your name, clothes, or physical appearance. for some the dysphoria can be so intense that they can’t even stand to exist in their current body. suicidal thoughts happen. that’s why a lot of us say medical transition is life-saving

1

Anonymous #10 2w

#7 is right about the root cause. and i know it’s hard for a cis person to understand gender dysphoria. i would say the closest thing to it that cis people can also experience is body dysmorphia

5

Anonymous #10 2w

I’ve seen posts with so many comments that the number glitches and doesn’t fully show

1

Anonymous OP 2w

Ok this is a genuine question for both OP and #7. And I’m really not trying to make anyone mad, I just really want to know. Does transitioning make someone actually BE that other gender? Like let’s say someone is born as a woman. She has this inner disconnect and does not feel like her body fits who she is. If your answer is yes, at what point does she become a man, for example? If the point of changing physically is to become more like a man, doesn’t that mean there’s physical truth about being

1

Anonymous #10 2w

a man too?

1

Anonymous #10 2w

The reason I’m asking this is because I’m trying to understand if transitioning is an emotional way of dealing with those feelings and stuff or if it is a claim that you actually become another gender. But it also seems that even with the concept of physically transitioning that we cannot separate physical reality from spiritual

1

Anonymous #10 2w

Sorry this is so long, but to clarify my point: If someone wants to maybe take hormones or have surgeries to look more like a man, I’m just confused as to why they want to change themselves to look more like the male sex when gender is different

1

Anonymous #10 2w

i think you’re being really respectful actually! yes, they are that other gender. sex and gender are two different things. sex is someone’s biological makeup, and technically that can’t be fully changed. gender, however, is the social category someone is put into based on the societal perception of masculinity, femininity, or somewhere in between. while sex and gender are usually aligned, for trans people, they aren’t. and that’s fine. it’s been that way since the concept of gender was developed

2

Anonymous #10 2w

Gender is absolutely separate from sex, but as a result of the way society is structured, the two are linked. Because of this, regardless of the fact that you can be a man despite having breasts, a vulva, a uterus, etc, for many it feels incorrect and that causes dysphoria. For some, it doesn’t necessarily cause dysphoria, but taking steps to transition can make them feel much better and happier overall (gender euphoria). I personally sit in between, I get very minor dysphoria sometimes, though-

8

Anonymous #10 2w

it’s really up to the individual if they want to change their appearance. it can help them relieve dysphoria. think of it in the sense that someone isn’t happy with their weight, so they work out or change their diet to be the way they want. it’s sort of the same concept, just with their sec characteristics instead of weight

4

Anonymous #2 2w

-when do things to present in more of a masculine way it makes me extremely happy

8

Anonymous #10 2w

transitioning doesn’t make someone *be* that gender, trans people were always the gender they were before they started transitioning. for example, i always felt like a boy even before i started hormones and changed my name and stuff. i was always a boy, even before i realized i was trans. what transitioning does is make your body, name, and how ur perceived match with what you’ve always been.

4

your hostile language isn’t going to make anyone want to listen or reason with you. my offer to talk to you some more (even in dms if you’d prefer) is still open if you’re willing to be civil

5

Anonymous OP 2w

I’m not going to reduce my very clear language because you can’t stomach it.

-3

Anonymous #1 2w

“I refuse to listen to well-agreed-upon scientific data because it doesn’t align with my worldview and you’re delusional for thinking that’s wrong”

10

i really don't care about what some stranger online thinks about my health. you've never met me. you dont know me. i, however, know who i am. i am infinitely happier than i used to be before i transitioned. if i hadn't transitioned, i would not be here, simple as that. THAT is the definition of irreparable damage. i know I'II stay the gender i was born as, it will never change. i have always been a boy. but now my body matches that. this isn't "made up" it is well supported scientific data.

12

just bc u dont like smth doesn’t make it a lie. science supports the existence of trans people. at first i thought u were genuinely asking questions in good faith but it’s clear now that u are not, and are only looking to argue. if u wanted to learn, u would listen to the people who have actually experienced the thing u claim to be an expert on, and u would listen to what the science says. u are not. i could give u links to help u learn more about this topic, but i have a feeling u wont care

17

Anonymous #2 2w

“I use echo chamber research to argue a point that doesn’t make sense in the real world and gaslight others into thinking it’s a normal worldview”

-4

Anonymous #1 2w

Ooo projectinggggg

10

Anonymous #7 2w

I’m glad you understand. I’m sorry you feel like you were something other than what you were born as but damaging yourself is not the solution. I really feel bad that people have preyed upon your feelings to make you want to change yourself in an irreversible way. But the worst thing I could possibly do is let the delusion continue to be fueled.

-3

Anonymous #1 2w

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️. again, do you have any research or valid sources to support these mindless claims of yours? i am not a child, i am capable of making my own decisions, i was not “preyed on” or manipulated. choosing to transition medically was something that took me years to decide and make sure i was ready for to prevent regret, and was 100% a decision of my own. there was nobody in my life that even rly suggested it, it was something i chose for myself.

7

Anonymous #1 2w

im not “damaged” i feel better than i ever have. im whole, and im happy. i feel like myself. im not quite sure why you keep insisting i have “damaged” myself when i feel healthier than i ever have in my life (not that you would know that, since you dont even know me at all). the only irreversible thing that could have happened was if i chose to do what you so vehemently want, which is try to just live with it, which wouldnt have worked and i probably would have offed myself at some point.

13

Anonymous #1 2w

there is no science that supports trans people’s existence as “delusion.” i cannot continue having a conversation with you if you’re going to blatantly blurt out incorrect statements with literally nothing to back it up. would you like for me to share some links and sources with you to educate you further on this topic, or should i stop now and not waste my time?

9

Anonymous #1 2w

you’re clearly not wanting to talk on good faith. i sincerely feel sorry for anyone in your life who may be trans. you may think what you’re doing is “helping” us, but all you’re doing is repeating hateful rhetoric to try and tear us down. being rude isn’t “helping.” i’ve been nothing but respectful despite your nasty language. please try to learn to see someone’s side and have empathy for them. it will improve your life and interactions with others greatly

9

Anonymous #1 2w

saying “every study done on trans people and the common consensus of professionals on gender is wrong” is conspiracy theorist thinking.

10