Anonymous #1 9w

A better question to disprove gods existence would be “if god is good, who or what deems him good”

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Anonymous #3 9w

It's not a slogan it's a quip that actually expands into a well thought out logical argument

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Anonymous #4 9w

That makes no sense

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Anonymous #4 9w

Also you cannot prove a negative, you cannot prove something doesn't exist

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 9w

Phrased it poorly but the question stands

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Anonymous #4 9w

No, it's not phrasing. You can't prove something doesn't exist.

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 9w

Which is why I conceded poor phrasing🤯🤯🤯🤯

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 9w

it becomes a slogan when people sling it without knowing or caring for the “well thought out logical argument.”

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Anonymous #3 9w

No point in explaining yourself to boneheads like you who will do anything but argue against the actual point you're making

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 9w

you first responded saying it’s not a slogan, I responded by saying it’s a slogan when used in such a way. I’m directly addressing my original point 💀 this is such a blatantly hypocritical red herring

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Anonymous #3 9w

apparently she didn’t like being wrong 💀 being pedantic in every comment and blocking people who point out her being a dumbass ig

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Anonymous #3 8w

She blocked you for saying that😭😭

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Anonymous #1 8w

And the answer is that he’s either not good or not real

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Anonymous #4 8w

… not poor phrasing

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Anonymous #7 8w

He is both

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Anonymous #1 8w

Prove it

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 8w

What do you think I mean when I say that? I have to be careful now cause apparently you block people who test your logic

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Anonymous #4 8w

I block people who are bigots or who argue in bad faith and people who annoy me, that's what it's for

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Anonymous #4 8w

Look into the concept of Plato’s Forms. Basically, everything has a single Form and every other thing tries to live up to it. God is those Forms of Goodness and Love, and that’s what we worship. All other goodness in this world is a glimpse into that Goodness, but none of it is the same level. Our human idea of what’s good could be flawed, but the Form of Goodness doesn’t change. There’s more to it but it’s not all going to fit in a yikyak comment

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Anonymous #8 8w

According to what? How do you determine God is good?

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Anonymous #8 8w

And to drive that point home- the proves God’s existence because according to that philosophy, Everything has a central Form. So every encounter with goodness in your life proves that there is a Form of Goodness, which is God.

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Anonymous #8 8w

Which god, specifically?

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Anonymous #8 8w

You’re just asserting a premise. That’s not proving anything

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Anonymous #2 8w

The Abrahamic God is who these Forms are, but that doesn’t mean that any one religion is necessarily right about everything. It’s a proof for God, but not a proof for religion’s interpretation. There’s more philosophy that gets deeper into it in that respect, but that’s beside the point right now

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Anonymous #8 8w

Something that does fit in a yy comment: you cannot use philosophy jargon to reconcile the inherent contradictions in the existence of an all powerful, all loving, all knowing, and all good deity, and the awful world we live in, where prayers go unanswered and children are bombed to smithereens daily by the our corrupt government and its allies If god is all powerful and all loving, why is there suffering? (Go on… say the thing)

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Anonymous #4 8w

This philosophy does not tell us exactly what is good. There are things like Truth and Beauty (like beauty found in nature, not vanity) that are under the umbrella of the Form of Goodness, but it’s up to us to discern throughout our lives what is truly of Goodness. Here’s a screenshot from this website that might help explain better guweb2.gonzaga.edu/faculty/mcreynolds/phil301/forms.htm

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Anonymous #8 8w

So God is real because God is good. But goodness is not defined and in the argument where Gods existence is validated by his goodness you have to assume that the validation already presupposes he exists and that he qualifies as good

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 8w

There is evil in the world too. We do not know the reason for everything, but it is ultimately for good if it’s not changed. I’ll say the thing you HATE: everything happens for a reason. Someone dying of cancer isn’t about them, but about the way it impacts the people around them, maybe prevents them from doing other things that would cause the butterfly effect and lead to more bad. It’s nobody’s FAULT, it’s just for a bigger reason than humans can understand.

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Anonymous #8 8w

I’d be careful talking with ittibitti they will block you if you contest their logic

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Anonymous #8 8w

Yeah fuck right off with that bs 😭 god is not all loving or all powerful if suffering exists my dude. It is a contradiction, flat out. If god allows you to die for some other mysterious reason beyond your comprehension, then he is not all powerful, because if he were, he could have spared you and still accomplished his goal. Or, he's not all loving, if he could have but chose not to It is that simple

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Anonymous #8 8w

You have to 1) prove it exists and then 2) prove it’s worthy of worship. Both, especially 2, are failing to happen here.

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Anonymous #4 8w

No- you have to figure out in your life what goodness is when you encounter it. I’d say that a sunset is a glimpse into Beauty, which is Good. And I could be wrong in saying that, but when I have so many encounters with other things that are also good, I have to be right about some of them. And so even if I’m wrong about some, being right about some still gives me a glimpse into Goodness aka God, even if I can’t know which is which during life.

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Anonymous #2 8w

I literally just explained how it must exist. At the very least, I’ve explained how the Form of Goodness exists, even if you choose not to believe that’s God. But of course the very being of what’s Good and Wise and Love is worthy of worship because those are an ultimate version of the good we see in our lives. It’s not that you owe those Forms the worship, but that you want to worship them out of gratitude for what they’ve brought to your life. And we just happen to call those Forms God.

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Anonymous #8 8w

Your opinions how it “must” don’t confirm it does. We need evidence. You’re claiming it’s the abrahamic one— the best “evidence” in any of the texts is full of contradictions. Why would I worship a fictional abuser? 😂

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 8w

For good to exist, bad has to exist too as a contrast. You’d never know what good was if you’d never seen bad. The contradiction is essential to the existence of good. To be all loving, and this is a bit of a different convo, he has to give you the option to choose to love him back. If you force someone to “love” you, that’s not love. Therefore, we have to have free will for him to be all-loving. With that free will, people often do bad things because humans make(sometimes terrible) mistakes.

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Anonymous #8 8w

For an “all loving” and “all *powerful*” being, no, bad would not have to exist. At all. That “all powerful” being would be the reason bad exists to begin with, so therefore would not deserve worship.

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Anonymous #2 8w

Again. To be all loving, he has to allow free will. That is how bad exists. So yes, he has to allow it to exist or the all powerful part would cancel out the all loving part. He is able to step in and change things but doesn’t sometimes because we have to have free will.

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Anonymous #8 8w

So what I’m hearing is that I’d be a much better god than yours if I had all the power in the universe.

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Anonymous #2 8w

No? It has nothing to do with whether you love him or not in this life. Bad things happen to everyone. Some prayers aren’t answered from even the most devoted, and sometimes the least believing people receive blessings they may not even recognize. The afterlife is a choice- either you choose to be with God, or you choose not to be. He doesn’t throw you anywhere.

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Anonymous #8 8w

Your first paragraph doesn't address anything I said Correct, and that's another contradiction in Christianity. God tells you to love him with the threat of eternal damnation. That is not love, that is abuse lmao.

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Anonymous #8 8w

I believe goodness is not God then. How does that work with your argument?

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Anonymous #8 8w

Your god (supposedly) made hell, torment, darkness. Your god made people to behave how they do, and to do every little action they do. Your god is the one that places people in whichever category. It’s not the person doing that. But congratulations on still not proving the existence of your fictional abuser or why it should be worshipped!

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 8w

It’s really a disgustingly toxic, one-sided relationship.

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Anonymous #4 8w

Then that’s your belief and there’s nothing I can tell you. God is just a name for the Forms of Goodness, Love, and Wisdom. This is like saying “I believe Batman is not Bruce Wayne then.” You can believe that, but they’re just two different names for the same person

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Anonymous #8 8w

And yet, no bad exists in heaven. So you don't have free will in heaven by your logic

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Anonymous #2 8w

He did not make those things. Satan used his free will and chose to separate from God to make those things because he wanted power. God did not Make anyone do anything because we have free will. Lots of people take the Bible and twist things up if that’s what you’re referring to, but that’s totally unrelated to this conversation. God does not place anyone into categories. Hell is not a fiery burning place, it’s simply the absence of God (Love, Wisdom, Goodness). People make that choice.

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Anonymous #8 8w

So proof of God is that he’s good, but I’m the arbiter of what good is and therefore he’s not real?

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Anonymous ittibittikitti 8w

If that first paragraph doesn’t address what you said, then I’m not understanding what you were saying. It is not supposed to be a threat. That’s something that churches and people created to scare people into sticking with them. It is this simple: Heaven is being with God, Hell is the absence of God. Hell is just a place where there is no love or goodness or wisdom. Not a fiery abyss. You make the choice about whether you want to be with God or not, that’s not abuse

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Anonymous #2 8w

I suppose that’s an argument you can make if you feel that way, but I don’t. The way I see it, and this is getting into just my opinion, is that God is all of this goodness and love that I see in my life at a larger scale. My life would suck without those things, and so I’m eternally grateful to experience them. I choose to spend time thanking God and worshipping his goodness. I understand how specific churches can be toxic I PROMISE you, but I choose not to let other humans get in the way

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Anonymous #8 8w

You worship the same abuser who causes every negative affliction, all cruelty, all suffering… who watches as children are kidnapped, raped, trafficked, bombed, and murdered every single day… and you think that’s goodness? You need serious therapy.

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Anonymous #4 8w

Sorry just now seeing this because I got 1000 replies at once- this is only true if you truly, genuinely believe that there is no good in the world at all. If you’ve ever had a good conversation with a friend, a good meal, or enjoyed a good sight, then you’ve glimpsed Goodness. Again, unless you genuinely believe that none of that is good.

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Anonymous #8 8w

Ah, yes, balance. You can’t have a good conversation with a friend without a child being bombed. Soooo gooooood.

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Anonymous #8 8w

That’s a false dichotomy. I can believe there is good while knowing what is not good. And just because you assert God is good doesn’t inherently make that true, it’s on you to substantiate that

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Anonymous #2 8w

As a I already said, he does not Cause those things. That’s evil and humans’ bad decisions that causes them. He has to stand by and let it happen sometimes, but that is absolutely not the same as causing it. He cannot revoke free will, it’s our job to make the world a better place and to use our free will to stop those who use theirs for bad. And we actually have no idea what kind of evils we’ve avoided when people were about to make terrible decisions and then chose to listen to God instead

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Anonymous #8 8w

All of the evil… which your “holy books” explicitly state your god created… who knows everything that will happen and knows some people will be absolutely horrible, but does nothing to protect others…. Watches it happen….. lets it happen…. Because it created that evil…. And you think bombing children is worth a good cup of coffee.

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Anonymous #4 8w

Yes you can absolutely believe that certain things are not good, I never said you couldn’t. I can be wrong about what’s good, maybe a good meal is actually evil I guess, I don’t know for sure. But I believe it’s good. I said this in another reply, but the Forms of Goodness/Love/Wisdom are just another name for God. Like Batman and Bruce Wayne. So you can choose to not believe that Batman is Bruce Wayne if you want, but that’s the way that Abrahamic religions see it.

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Anonymous #2 8w

My “holy books” do not state that God created evil. Maybe some specific incidents that you’d deem bad like the flood, but not evil itself. I’m not sure how many more times I can say that he cannot and will not step on free will because that would violate the all-loving premise. He does try to give signs and speak to people who are causing evil just as he does for everyone, but some people choose to ignore it and do the evil anyway. And what on EARTH does coffee have anything to do with this

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Anonymous #2 8w

Okay I see the picture for the coffee, that comment makes more sense now. The flood story is an allegory, not a true story. There was a real flood in the Middle East around that time that it could be referring to, but it was purely regional and the whole world did not flood. The point of that story is the covenant that was made at the end of it, not the literal details themselves

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Anonymous #8 8w

Ah, yes, a covenant of nothingness. How lovely!

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Anonymous #2 8w

That covenant is God saying he will not destroy the world just because there’s evil in it. That’s not nothing, and it’s quite literally the epitome of this entire conversation.

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Anonymous #8 8w

I’ll ask the initial question again just in case. What is your proof, that God exists, factually speaking?

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Anonymous #8 8w

Your books absolutely do state your god created evil. If it truly loved everyone (pretending it exists for a moment), people wouldn’t be suffering. You don’t watch your kid be harmed if you love them. That’s not love. That’s wicked abuse.

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Anonymous #8 8w

Pretty bad your god needs a sticky note reminder to not wipe out people. And yet still lets genocide after fucking genocide happen.

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Anonymous #2 6w

[farts in face]

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