Anonymous mother_russia 4w

I’m just specifying because while it fits the definition, it’s doesn’t hold the same weight. When people hate an oppressive group, it’s not the same kind of hate as the oppressive group hating the oppressed if that makes sense. (This is not saying men can’t be oppressed, just that under the term of sexism men are at the top of a hierarchy)

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Anonymous mother_russia 4w

I don’t get the need to put it in hierarchy. Y can’t we just say both are bad and it’s wrong to do both

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Anonymous #5 4w

Discourse on the definition of sexism isn’t creating the hierarchy. Centuries of systemic patriarchy is creating the hierarchy.

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Anonymous #6 4w

The person I responded too literally used the term hierarchy

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Anonymous #5 4w

Because it’s relevant? If a group tends to target and abuse people specifically because their victims belong to the same group as you, so you tend to dislike or be wary of people that are part of that group that targets your group, that’s very different from the kind of dislike that the other group holds towards the people they abuse. I’m not putting them in a hierarchy, the hierarchy already exists and I’m just explaining it.

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Anonymous #4 4w

Oooo interesting! I’ve never heard it described like that but it makes a lot of sense

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Anonymous mother_russia 4w

But what’s wrong with saying both are wrong to do I don’t understand

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Anonymous #4 4w

sexism is NOT systemic. by definition, it's the "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, TYPICALLY against women, on the basis of sex." YES, systemic sexism exists in MANY societies around the world, but sexism itself does not always have to be systemic. Being prejudiced (not afraid) against a man simply BECAUSE he is a man, is sexist.

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Anonymous #5 4w

Because when it’s actually helps protect women to hold that prejudice, I’m not going to condemn them from holding those beliefs. If women are actually much safer in women only zones, then I’m fine excluding men. Because actual safety takes precedent over trying to show an oppressive group equality.

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Anonymous #5 4w

It’s also just more of a reality than anything, not because men inherently are more violent but because of how they are raised and taught. That’s I think one of the big differences is that women who are prejudiced against men and doing it to protect themselves and they don’t believe it’s inherent to men where as men who are prejudiced against women are doing it because they feel superior and believe it’s inherent for men to be better than women.

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Anonymous mother_russia 4w

I don’t consider women only zones to be sexist though

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Anonymous #7 4w

Im a social justice major 💀 the buzz words youre using are larger than their dictionary definitions. Sexism is systemic. You as an individual can hold biases (subconscious) or prejudices (conscious) based on sex, and you as an individual can discriminate (take action on bias/prejudice) based on sex, but men cannot experience Sexism bc Sexism is rooted and perpetuated by the larger societal and legal system.

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Anonymous #4 4w

They can't experience systemic sexism, since the system is built in their favor, but they can still experience sexism. Let's say there's a restaurant that's primarily owned and operated by women that treats male customers bad once they walk in the door just because they're men. I genuinely want to know how that's not sexism?

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Anonymous #7 4w

Thats discrimination based on sex not Sexism. The two are a venn diagram, not equal in meaning and thats what most people dont understand. Anyone can discriminate anyone but the majority cannot experience sexism, racism, etc. all squares are rectangles but rectangles are not squares.

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Anonymous #7 4w

I mean yeah, men are NEVER going to be held back in society on the basis of their sex. that is the reason they can never experience systemic sexism. but systemic sexism isn't the only way that sexism can exist. Asian people do not experience systemic racism in America, because this country was not built on systems that were meant to keep them down. However, if I, as a Black person, hated someone because they were Asian, how is that not racist. Yes, maybe someone can't experience systemic racism-

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Anonymous #7 4w

-but they can still experience racism. same as how some people, men, cannot experience systemic sexism, but can still experience sexism

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Anonymous #7 4w

Yes like for example male victims of abuse are more dismissed and custody cases usually favor the women. I don’t get y there is a harm in acknowledging it

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Anonymous #4 4w

So I feel like we just disagree on definitions then. Discrimination based on sex IS sexism. Sexism is OFTEN systemic. But it is not always systemic. therefore, sexism can be experience by men and women. however, the sexism experienced by men won't hold them back in society, which is why it isn't SYSTEMIC

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Anonymous #7 4w

Ya like the asian thing. I’ve experience a lot of racism as an Asian and it was always dismissed bc we are “model minority”. It was only until after covid that people decided Asians could be discriminated against as well

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Anonymous #2 4w

I’m so shocked that this is the top comment rn. Yall realize black people were enslaved by white people less than 200 years ago, right? Only were no longer segregated a little over 60 years ago? STILL haven’t escaped the effects of Reaganomics? Logic in arguments should apply to similar arguments, yes, but this is NOT similar.

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Anonymous #5 4w

This is a result of the system that men made, bad yes, against it absolutely, not sexism bc its their system. We arent disagreeing on the definition your definition is just shallow. Thats discrimination not sexism, as I said, squares and rectangles.

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Anonymous #5 4w

These are both really good points. Exactly! Men experience sexism as well, like the SA victims you mentioned, which is a very important topic that I hadn't thought of

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Anonymous #1 4w

Obviously this isn’t the Oppression Olympics—both women and black people have been oppressed throughout America’s lifespan, and this culture of oppression is engrained into this country, but the scale of oppression is entirely different. Sooo it’s not really similar, no… especially since men need women vice versa (to procreate and such).

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Anonymous #7 4w

Also, the poll itself doesn't leave much space for nuance. If a woman is prejudiced against a man, it doesn't automatically make her sexist. Maybe she's had traumatic experiences with men and she holds prejudices against them because of how those experiences shaped her. It isn't always black and white, it's usually deeper than that

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Anonymous #4 4w

Sexism CAN be systemic, but it doesn’t have to be. You’re conflating sexism’s prevalence in American culture with sexism’s actual interpersonal definition

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Anonymous #1 4w

I’m not saying it’s similar or comparable in how bad they are, I’m simply comparing the logic of oppressed vs non oppressed party. Yes the scale is entirely different but the logic applies

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Anonymous #2 4w

If I didn’t word that perfectly that’s my bad

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Anonymous #2 4w

I guess another example is more similar to poor people hating on the rich than rich people hating on the poor

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Anonymous #4 4w

I don't think it's a shallow definition. There's sexism, and then there's systemic sexism. I think most people would agree that those two things exist. They can both exist. The restaurant example absolutely would be sexist. Or a female high school teacher that gives girls extra points on quizzes but subtracts from boys' quizzes because the teacher hates the entire male sex. That is indeed sexist, and if you disagree, it means we disagree on definitions, not necessarily that mine are "shallow"

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Anonymous #2 4w

Oooh okay then yeah I agree with you lol. The base level claim of: “I hate you because you’re X” is allowed under the equal arguments can follow equal logic idea. Buuuttt if the claim included the addition of “so that means these two ideas are of similar standing” then I would have to disagree, at least without a deeper convo. Because the scale and motivations differ. It’d be like comparing jail to prisoners of war because both involve confinement, but those are not truly equal statements

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Anonymous #1 4w

That type of deal

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Anonymous #7 4w

This is just a semantic argument as to whether "sexism" is a term for systemic prejudice or not. ("Sex-based discrimination" and "Sexism"(systemic), vs 'Sexism' and 'Systemtic sexism').

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Anonymous #7 4w

Also you keep kinda flip-flopping as to whether or not male discrimination is systemic sexism or not. You said it's not systemic because it doesnt hold men back in society, but you gave an example in which it kinda does. I think it's accurate to say that a patriarchal society DOES hold men back from some things, and sexism as a result of this is systemic sexism against men.

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Anonymous #8 4w

For example, parents threatening to withhold a college fund if a man wants to pursue a degree that is "too feminine," such as education.

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Anonymous #8 4w

These are really good points tbh!

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