Neurodivergent on Sidechat | Narcissists- both with or without NPD- are not inherently bad people nor abusive. It annoys me how narcissism in particular is portrayed as Uniquely Evil and deserving of its own special term “narcissistic abuse” when abuse is abuse?

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Neurodivergent 3w

Narcissists- both with or without NPD- are not inherently bad people nor abusive. It annoys me how narcissism in particular is portrayed as Uniquely Evil and deserving of its own special term “narcissistic abuse” when abuse is abuse?

Anonymous 3w

Sure you can argue that a narcissist can abuse someone in a way that’s not typical of a non narcissist! You can argue this with any other mental illness too, however. I know multiple people with believed autistic parents who believe their parent’s neurodivergence affected the way they were mistreated. That is fine to acknowledge. However, calling that, “autistic abuse” would be completely insane.

Anonymous 3w

also, to believe that a certain diagnostic label means a person is unavoidably destined to cause harm, irreparably selfish & manipulative & untrustworthy, inherently “criminal” etc is to believe in eugenics, full stop. it’s just not an objective or politically-neutral act to buy into the idea that a particular mental health diagnosis categorizes those who suffer from it as definitively destructive

Anonymous 3w

I somewhat agree, but specifying “narcissistic abuse” does tell you a bit more about the nature and method of the abuse, where “autistic abuse” really doesn’t. Same way that people often specify that someone is an “abusive alcoholic” or something similar. Alcoholics and narcissists are both capable of not being abusive, but the specification tells you more about why they’re having trouble.

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Anonymous 3w

EXACTLY this drives me crazy. I have friends with NPD. I hate how conditions are demonized.

Anonymous 3w

But the nature of the narcissist is such that they need to abuse, not to hurt on purpose, but to get their needs met. The narc is very damaged and insecure and so they constantly take from others in one way or another. The nature of this disease leads inevitably to abuse.

Anonymous 3w

I think it possibly needs a new term, but the behavior described by the current label ‘narcissistic abuse’ is distinct from other types of abuse, and to tell those who are being abused not to use the current precise language to label their experiences is harmful.

-1

Anonymous

#1 3w

Dude take a step back and realize you’re talking about your fellow human beings. No one is doomed or beyond help if they’re willing to get it. To oppose this idea is ableism.

Anonymous

OP 3w

I’ll also add that NPD itself is often a reaction to abuse, a survival mechanism. You’re implying that some abuse victims are just inherently destined to be abusers no matter what. Don’t you think that’s fucked up?

Anonymous

#1 3w

this just tells me that you’ve embraced some really dangerous dehumanizing stigma without thinking it through critically. psychiatry as a field has plenty of flaws, but one thing we’ve mostly gotten right by now is that there can be no such thing as Evil Abuser Disorder—that’s just not how that works. it would totally undermine the logic & function of clinical psychiatry to invent a diagnostic category that labels the afflicted as irredeemable & unavoidably destructive

Anonymous

#1 3w

that’s why, for instance, constructs like “sociopathy” & “psychopathy” are mostly considered outdated / don’t actually exist as diagnostic labels in the DSM at this point in time, instead mainly only being perpetuated by copaganda tv and shallow pop-psych grifters. a disorder is a flexible pathology, by definition it is not a condemnation to a lifetime of harmful behavior or a reason to conceptualize someone as innately malignantly separate from the entire rest of humanity

Anonymous

#1 3w

someone with NPD has the same “needs” as every other human being, and being “damaged & insecure” is pretty obviously not unique to people with NPD. people with and without NPD broadly cope with those feelings using the same set of tools: some of which are productive, some of which are harmful. going the harmful route doesn’t necessarily mean someone has NPD, and having NPD doesn’t necessarily mean someone is going to attempt to damage others in pursuit of healing internal wounds

Anonymous

#2 3w

“abusive alcoholic” as a phrase functions very differently from how “alcoholic abuse” would, though—the former doesn’t imply a unique form of abuse which is Only characteristic of & attributable to alcoholics, it just claims that an individual alcoholism-afflicted person is being abusive. “abusive narcissist” claims that an individual with NPD is behaving abusively; the phrase “narcissistic abuse” seeks to invent a form of abuse which is universal to people with NPD and perpetuated only by them

Anonymous

#2 3w

“autistic abuse” would only tell you less about the nature and method of abuse than “narcissistic abuse” does if you already harbor the belief that a NPD diagnosis means someone is innately predisposed towards being abusive, moreso than other mental health diagnoses. a diagnosis is just a name for a cluster of symptoms, not a monolith—the symptoms themselves can manifest in a variety of different forms & behaviors

Anonymous

#2 3w

alright so if you abused someone would it be called autistic abuse

Anonymous

#4 3w

distinct how…? the only other established categorical labels for abuse that I can think of refer strictly to the “type” of abuse insofar as it being emotional abuse, physically violent abuse or sexual abuse (or the additional modifier of elder abuse / child abuse) it’s fine if you wanna push for the development of new categorical language beyond that, but there’s no productive path forward for the usage of labels that very explicitly demonize anyone with a particular mental health diagnosis

Anonymous

#4 3w

it’s also definitely Not “precise language”—it refers to a set of abusive behaviors that can be perpetrated by *anyone* as if those behaviors are somehow 1) unique to and 2) innately characteristic of NPD. it’s a misnomer that causes tangible harm to people living with an aggressively-stigmatized mental health diagnosis. and I say this as someone with cptsd from being abused in ways that absolutely do get lumped in under the so-called “narcissistic abuse” umbrella!

Anonymous

#3 3w

So hi I have a lot of experience with this and my first career was in abnormal psychology. Sociopathy and psychopathy are pretty similar which is why they are grouped together in the current DSM. NPD is a whole different animal. Their affliction will not allow the self much true reflection making it really the worst disorder. That doesn’t mean they are malicious.

-2

Anonymous

#1 3w

I hope you never work with anyone mentally ill if that’s your attitude

Anonymous

OP 3w

Yeah man it is totally fucked up it sucks. I have a lot of compassion for narcissists, truly. I think they suffer a tremendous amount and they operate from survival instinct like you said which makes them behave and think differently. They cannot accept that anything is “wrong” with them. They say it’s the only disorder with no reliable treatment and I’ve never known a recovered narc

-2

Anonymous 3w

ad hominem dumbass

Anonymous

#1 3w

psychopathy and sociopathy aren’t in the dsm what the hell are you talking about

Anonymous

#1 3w

I’ve seen them. No person is beyond help. It is not helpful nor kind to generalize a group of mentally ill people by assuming not a single one has ever had self awareness.

Anonymous

#5 3w

i’m halfway through my psych bachelors too

Anonymous

OP 3w

It’s less than 1% and half of them relapse so yeah pretty general

-2

Anonymous

#5 3w

Cute that ain’t much in the psychology world keep going

-2

Anonymous

#1 3w

Imagine genuinely believing some people are incapable of help and thinking you’re the morally correct one

Anonymous

#5 3w

settle down there intro to psych chick. they’re diagnosed under the antisocial umbrella rather than specifically but it’s okay that’s maybe getting little specific because basically it’s the same disease but different pathology

-2

Anonymous

#1 3w

i’m not a woman?

Anonymous

#1 3w

also psychopathy has never been in the dsm, i’m guessing you worked at an ABA place and now feel like you’re a psychologist

Anonymous

#1 3w

also diseases and disorders are two very different things, anyone who has even a slight interest in psychology wouldn’t call antisocial personality disorders a disease

Anonymous

OP 3w

Those are statistics based on research no my opinion

-2

Anonymous

#1 3w

but like congrats on duel wielding misogyny and ableism while objectively being wrong

Anonymous

#1 3w

you didn’t reference any statistics, you just made a blatantly incorrect statement. psychopathy wasn’t even in dsm 1