LGBTQIA+ on Sidechat | Since we’re all talking about agab stuff, what are the general opinions on nonbinary people who choose to at least partially identify with a binary gender or sex? Like personally, meaning they only use those labels to describe themselves?

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LGBTQIA+ 2w

Since we’re all talking about agab stuff, what are the general opinions on nonbinary people who choose to at least partially identify with a binary gender or sex? Like personally, meaning they only use those labels to describe themselves?

Anonymous 2w

I think using agab vs identifying with a binary gender is diffrent. Like saying “I’m a nonbinary woman” is very diffrent than “I’m nonbinary and I’m afab so that means I understand womanhood more than trans women” (this is where I see it most used)

Anonymous 2w

is it supposed to be my business

Anonymous 2w

this is my honest view. being a man/woman is different than being amab/afab. identifying as a nb man/woman? cool. no red flags. when someone says they identify as their asab, that does throw up some red flags (for me personally, based on my experience). it *usually* means they have not unpacked/unlearned certain bioessentialist and transphobic beliefs.

Anonymous 2w

I’ve seen people identify as nb men/women, personally I still like to identify with my assigned sex even though it doesn’t match my gender identity, they’re both an important part of who I am and I just like to acknowledge both of those aspects

Anonymous

OP 2w

I know none of this matters in the real world but it sucks seeing people saying anyone who uses agab in any context is bad, I’m not using it for other people unless they ask, I just like identifying a specific way

Anonymous

#2 2w

identifying w ur asab is not the same as identifying as a man/woman/male/female/whatever, it’s identifying specifically w the coercive way asab is enforced. it’s also kinda ?! because typically cis is defined as “identifying as one’s asab,” so seeing trans people do that is…

Anonymous

#2 2w

Oh yeah I agree with that, I don’t use my assigned sex to make transphobic arguments though, I just view it as another aspect of my identity

Anonymous

OP 2w

Crap I meant to reply to 1 my bad

Anonymous

#2 2w

I don’t understand why some people identify as nonbinary + their AGAB vs cis + gender non-conforming

Anonymous

#3 2w

Personally, I don’t identify with my assigned gender (my gender identity is nonbinary), but I do identify with my assigned sex, since sex and gender are two separate concepts

Anonymous

OP 2w

Everyone has a different way of describing themselves and their identities, I don’t understand all of them but as long as they’re not assuming things about other people I don’t really care, whatever makes them happy is great

Anonymous

OP 2w

AGAB + ASAB are used interchangeably. It’s the same to say “I don’t understand why someone would identify as nonbinary + their ASAB vs cis + gender non-conforming”. I don’t have to understand to interact with people respectfully (use their pronouns etc), but I agree that it’s weird (and antithetical) for a trans person to identify with their AGAB/ASAB.

Anonymous

#3 2w

So would it also be weird for someone to say they’re a nonbinary man/woman or is the problem just male/female? I don’t really see why it would be an issue, especially the latter, since it seems most people in the trans community (me included) view sex and gender and two different things. I get some people use asab/agab interchangeably, but personally, I still apply the sex≠gender logic when it comes to how I do/don’t identity with what I was “born as”

Anonymous

OP 2w

As two different things**

Anonymous

OP 2w

asab and agab are interchangeable bc they refer to the same moment/process. children are raised and assumed/coerced to be cis. asab is not interchangeable with man/woman OR male/female. there are trans women who are female (+AMAB), trans men who are male (+AFAB). asab is very specifically about an assignment *at birth*. that’s why this criticism exists. it’s choosing to identify with a doctor’s statement about you and not self-identifying based on your experiences/self-knowledge.

Anonymous

#2 2w

It’s both, I identify myself using terms I’m most comfortable with, some of which align with terms used to describe me at birth and others not. I don’t like it when people try to imply I’m not actually trans just because I think about sex and gender as separate things, honestly I thought that was the norm in the community. I’m not cis but that doesn’t mean I want to change my sex

-1

Anonymous

OP 2w

the idea that ASAB and AGAB could be distinct is nonsensical, it’s due to shifting preferred language not a distinct concept. ASAB originated in trans + intersex activist spaces to talk abt coercive (and sometimes surgical) assignment, which is the basis of coercive gendered upbringing. the point is that the two are congruent. many of these problems exist because people use ASAB as a proxy for things it’s not (adult genitalia, “gendered socialization”, etc) which harms trans + intersex ppl.

Anonymous

#2 2w

I’m aware that intersex people are usually surgically altered to fit a binary sex and gender at birth so I can see why those would be used interchangeably, it seems like the issue is less about me identifying as male/female and nb at the same time and more of me just not understanding the intended context of as/gab. But it makes more sense now

Anonymous

#4 2w

I mean it’s not really supposed to be anyone’s business but people make it that way when they say others are horrible for choosing to self identify in a way they don’t understand, I know it’s mostly online where people have an issue with it but it still hurts yk?