Anonymous OP 4w

I feel like I should clarify also I am a bisexual man.

80

Anonymous #1 4w

This is specifically about a now deleted post on here implying having lesbian sex using a strap is just like having sex with men. But I’ve seen similar things on other platforms (especially tumblr) where bi people will try to call out biphobia, inadvertently use a homophobic talking point, and then gay people come back defensive and use biphobic talking points. And on and on and on.

90

Anonymous OP 4w

It’s a shitty cycle and it could very easily be solved if we all were a little more open to feedback when we worded things insensitively. And if we used discourse like this to try and understand each other better as a community instead of doing friendly fire back and forth.

51

Anonymous OP 4w

Yikes, both sides of that are horrible

14

Anonymous #1 4w

It’s so disappointing that there’s so much bi/homophobia within our own community like what tf are we doing??

13

Anonymous #1 4w

It does suck, but I’ve found that 1. It’s mostly an online problem, when I meet other queer people irl there’s way less weird discourse and it’s chiller, and 2. While the biphobic/homophobic people online can be very loud sometimes, they are the minority. Most of us are just out here vibing.

28

Anonymous OP 4w

Very true, unfortunately I’m in a small conservative area so I don’t really get that irl community I’ve been hoping for 😭

13

Anonymous #2 4w

As a trans guy absolutely, tbh the only reason I didn’t mention it in the original post is I feel like it’s a given that we’re always catching strays lmao

73

Anonymous OP 4w

That stuff about the strap is stupid af. A lot of strap ons are literally just like purple rods and shit and don’t look like a dick at all. I mean is the argument that women can’t use anything to penetrate themselves then? That’s like telling a gay man that him using a pocket stroker makes him straight. Fucking brain dead argument.

30

Anonymous #3 4w

It was a very poorly worded post, yeah. I think it came from a real place of frustration about biphobia within the lesbian community, but that doesn’t make the stupid argument okay. And it sucked that when people tried to tell them in the comments why their argument didn’t make sense they just kind of doubled down.

15

Anonymous #5 4w

Very much agreed. I mostly stay out of online discourse these days because meeting irl queer friends has taught me that truly 90% of people don’t give a fuck about the weird niche discourse.

17

Anonymous OP 4w

You ate this. People get upset and then we’re not discoursing anymore. I have to admit I don’t KNOW homophobic talking points and sometimes it feels like they just disagree so they’re calling everything homophobic now. I’m a pan woman but I’ve had conversations with bi guys and sometimes felt like they were being misogynistic talking about straight women

42

Anonymous OP 4w

I was the first person to comment and I tried to ask what the correlation between the two things was while acknowledging that biphobia sucks and they immediately started with lesbophobic rhetoric and the more they kept speaking the more lesbophobic they got and it just sucks

31

Anonymous #10 4w

I have definitely seen certain bi people do this and it’s a real issue for sure. But I think you’re kind of generalizing here. I would say the majority of bisexual people are not like this. Most of us are just people.

18

Anonymous #10 4w

I am also tired of that. My intention with the post was to say I wish we could talk about biphobia without it devolving into dumb homophobic talking points. Because I do think there’s certain sections of the bi community that have severe issues with internalized homophobia and it comes out in some shitty ways.

4

Anonymous OP 4w

But they are though :/ many of them try and not say it out loud, but when push comes to shove their actions speak louder than words. How many times have we seen bi men having tons of male situationships but when a woman comes along, they’re actually dating? They hide behind their straightness because it’s safe, with no regard for the feelings of those who don’t get to choose.

-6

Anonymous #10 4w

Again: HUGE generalization. I am a bi man currently dating a nonbinary person. I am in an openly queer relationship and have been for 5 years now. Yes, there are certain bi people who are afraid to be in serious queer relationships for safety/internalized homophobia reasons, and that sucks. It’s harmful to them and it’s harmful to the gay people they sleep with. That DOES NOT mean all bi people are like that or even that the majority of bi people are like that.

15

Anonymous OP 4w

Not trying to single out bi men, but gender neutral language is wordy. It’s the same both ways. And i know it’s not every last bisexual person that acts like this, but you can’t expect everyone in the gay community to welcome bisexuals with open arms all of the time when we have seen time and time again they don’t really got our backs.

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Anonymous #10 4w

I am expecting people to treat individuals as individuals. I think we can talk about these issues and acknowledge they’re harmful without assuming every bi person is guilty until proven innocent. And excluding bi people by default just isolates them more and makes them more likely to become shitty and withdrawn from the community.

15

Anonymous OP 4w

I’m not saying bisexual people should be excluded from the queer community entirely, I’m saying that there has been almost no conversation regarding the privilege that bisexuals have. To just be able to revert to heteronormativity when it’s convenient. Not to mention how many bisexuals are in love with perpetuating negative stereotypes about gay people. There at least needs to be a larger discussion about this before we can just expect gay people to shut up and deal with it.

-5

Anonymous #10 4w

That’s a privilege but there’s downsides, too. From the outside looking in, it feels like there is a particular relationship a het or gay person can have with a personal who is not mutually attracted to their gender. Gay man/straight woman, straight women with each other, straight men with each other, lesbian woman/straight man where there is nothing between them on either side. I will never get that. Anyone could suspect me of having a crush on them or feelings for them or wanting to…

10

Anonymous #10 4w

hook up with them at any moment and that kinda sucks. The same way a straight guy might look at a gay guy with suspicion and less trust, they might look at a bisexual guy. The bi guys also don’t offer straight or bi women the safety from attraction that gay men can provide. It is a real difference in possibilities for platonic friendship

8

Anonymous #10 4w

There’s also erasure, that’s the obvious one, and then the more subtle thing is that what you portray as privilege (sure, it could be that, too) is could also be internal dissonance or self warfare. Bi girls can feel dumb that they dated a man every time they experience traditional heterosexual violence - I have truly experienced shame for this. I know dv and sa happens in queer relationships, but that doesn’t prevent me from blaming myself for continuing to date men every time I experience…

6

Anonymous #6 4w

Either of those things. It’s a double bind, though, because in a same sex relationship you feel the full force of homophobia and there’s the added flavor (not saying it’s worse) of some people who don’t even present as homophobic telling you you should stick to the opposite gender to avoid the stigma of being queer. My mom told me to think of my family and how my same sex relationships could affect them in their more conservative community than mine.

16

Anonymous #6 4w

Your last point isn’t bi specific. My mother loves to tell me that I can just choose to date men

3

Anonymous #6 4w

While dating the opposite gender may be a privilege, as a bisexual person, you can just as easily fall in love with someone of the same gender and externally experience their biphobia or internally feel inadequately gay due to lack of experience or internalized biphobia.

17

Anonymous #6 4w

I’m really not trying to say it’s worse to be bi, I’m just saying it’s not that simple. I’d still choose to be bi because I was born this way and I love myself. I’m also bipolar. That may seem unrelated. They both start with bi. They also both open your life to more different experiences than most people get. Most people will never get to be in love with both men and women. Most people will never experience the full range of extreme emotions and variance in energy levels that I get.

19

Anonymous #6 4w

I mean, I think even you understand that the comparison is ridiculous and irrelevant. There is no world where the gay experience is preferable over the bisexual one in any fashion. mainstream negative stereotypes and hate going towards LGBTQ+ people is rarely ever directed at bisexual people, and whatever is is usually just the leftovers of what was directed at the rest of us. Not even to mention how dehumanizing it can be to be perceived as a gay man before you’re perceived as a Human being 1/

-5

Anonymous #6 4w

But either way, your point is irrelevant. Bisexual people so often refuse to heal their internalized homophobia because they think it’s easier to hide behind their heterosexuality, and at the end of the day it’s the actual gay people who get hurt every time.

-6

Anonymous #10 4w

Bisexual people are actual gay people

8

Anonymous #9 4w

True, I worded that very poorly. I meant to refer to people who are strictly gay.

-5

Anonymous #10 4w

You still should respect bisexual people

14

Anonymous #9 4w

I do, most of my friends are bisexual or pansexual. But I can acknowledge that most if not all of them seem to have unhealthy habits in the way they treat people when in queer relationships compared to when they date straight.

-4

Anonymous #9 4w

I respect bisexual people but I really wish most of them could address their internalized homophobia and stop perpetuating negative stereotypes about gay people and devaluing gay relationships 💚

-4

Anonymous #10 4w

Idk not to speak for anyone besides me but since I’m already treating this as my journal, I have my only same sex ex on a pedestal and regard same sex couples more highly than I value heterosexual couples bc with the heterosexual couples I’m more suss about unhealthy dynamics bc the heterosexual script is so fucked and I’m very attuned to the damage it does as a human living on earth and a dv survivor service provider who has worked with hetero and not hetero populations

8

Anonymous #10 4w

Idk if I even have internalized homophobia so much as internalized self-perception issues. I’m not advocating for anything here, I’ll out myself as problematic - I’m afraid I manipulate men. I’m afraid it’s me who makes them controlling because I’m reckless and I “need a babysitter.” I don’t feel bad inflicting that on them because of the ways they consistently harm me but it doesn’t seem right to put a woman through that. My girl ex is the one who got away and I broke up with her because I…

10

Anonymous #6 4w

was deeply scared of hurting her and bringing out the side of her I’ve brought out in men.

7

Anonymous #10 4w

Here’s a thought: If most of your friends are bi/pan and perpetuate shitty stereotypes, is the issue with bi/pan people as a whole? Or is the issue that you have bad taste in friends?

10

Anonymous OP 4w

The issue is with bi/pan people as a whole. My friends are FAR less guilty than most. Let’s not act like bisexual and straight people alike haven’t been normalizing micro aggressions towards gay men for YEARS. Calling every man you don’t like a twink, calling any differing expression of gender gay or fruity, and the dreaded “gay best friend,“ making fun of men with feminine voices etc.

-4

Anonymous #10 4w

As a bi woman who only counts as bi because im minimally attracted to men but mostly women, it really sucks to have to hear bs like this because I’ve been pushed out of the lesbian community for somehow being too “straight”(even though I wouldn’t date a man) and pushed out of the BI community for being “too gay”. I can’t even hide behind straight privilege because I’ll never willingly get into a het relationship but still get ostracized from every side. Yall really don’t know when to stfu.

20

Anonymous #7 4w

If you value gay relationships equally to straight ones I’m not talking about you. But you have to admit there are many bi people out there who do not think of MLM/WLW relationships as end game. I’m not a woman so I can’t speak for the female experience but there are so many bi men who are TERRIFIED of being perceived as gay and they let that control them

-5

Anonymous #7 4w

Also I don’t see how you seeing yourself as having been pushed out of the bi community is relevant. I’m not trying to say you aren’t bisexual or anything. I’m saying bisexual people usually are far more inclined to homophobia

-4

Anonymous #10 4w

It sucks but people are allowed to feel like they value their straight or gay side more or not be sure. The shitty thing would be leading someone on, but most relationships among youth rn are casual it seems. Like gay straight or otherwise there’s a lot of casual and nonchalant

9

Anonymous #10 4w

Actually I personally value gay relationships so much more because I think the bond between two people in a queer relationship loving each other, despite the homophobic views of most of the world, is so much more special. Not one type of relationship is inherently better than another, but I just love gay love so much more because it’s something I personally relate to and understand the struggle of.

9

Anonymous #8 4w

Getting into a relationship with someone of the same gender when you know you do not see them or the relationship as important or meaningful is shitty. Treating your same sex partner worse than if they were the other gender is shitty. Common sense

-3

Anonymous #7 4w

You’re entitled to have any kind of relationship preference for any reason. It’s not homophobic for a bi person to lean more toward heterosexuality, it doesn’t invalidate their biness. Who is anyone else to say “you’re not bi enough” and on top of that “your failure at being bi is also homophobic” like that’s absurd. The freedom of love is love is that no one is prescribing you a specific way to love. You get to pick and it’s beautiful

17

Anonymous #10 4w

Getting into a relationship with anyone and giving them a false sense of how you view the relationship is shitty. That’s a mismatch of intentions regardless of the orientation of the participants. Communication would clear all that up.

15

Anonymous #8 4w

I never said bi people aren’t bi unless they’re more gay. If you can show me ANYWHERE where I said that I will apologize. I said it’s shitty to not put value in queer relationships and still have them.

-4

Anonymous #8 4w

I totally agree. It sucks that it’s all stuff I’ve been told and made to feel like and I’m just trying to share another perspective of why it’s not always “easy” or “privileged” being bi. Sexuality is such a spectrum and it’s a shame that there’s some people within the community that have such a black and white view of it.

7

Anonymous #8 4w

The thing is, many bi people do not understand that and they just see gay relationships as inherently being less serious so they do not feel the need to communicate that at all. That’s is what I’ve been saying this whole time. Bi people getting into some type of relationship with a gay person, under the impression that they shouldn’t have to commit to that person because the relationship isn’t as serious as a straight relationship.

-5

Anonymous #10 4w

Okay it sounds like there’s some sub textual vendetta here. Not trying to be like overanalyzing but youre describing a generic shitty thing in correlation with biness as if it’s a common practice among bi-folk when it’s not and it’s a normal shitty anyone thing. Like you’re saying we need to chastise A for [social crime] when any letter of the alphabet could do social crime? Like what’s the message here

10

Anonymous #10 4w

And NO ONE here is saying it’s ok to devalue queer relationships. That’s still not a bi issue. It’s a homophobia issue that anyone can display. 🤷🏾‍♀️

16

Anonymous #7 4w

Bi people are the only ones getting into queer relationships with the expectation that they don’t have to take it seriously. Straight people aren’t doing that.

-6

Anonymous #10 4w

Okay this is like the men cheat more vs women cheat more argument tbh. You can’t make these generalizations about bi people in good faith. You’re just coming off like you dated a bi person and they cheated or smth. I’m sorry if that happened but this is not cordial discourse. You’re not affording the same graces you want afforded to you

14

Anonymous #10 4w

People are getting into relationships with people and sometimes they are not serious. The victim hood has to stop before concensus can be reached. Bi people are not a monolith plotting against gay people

18

Anonymous #10 4w

Again, nobody is saying that it’s ok to devalue someone you’re in a relationship with, but you cannot put that on any singular sexuality. Anyone can do that and if you’re going to point the finger at anyone, point it at cis straight guys who are religious and have been commonly known to not treat the women they’re with, with respect, but instead as property. That’s a much bigger issue in the world if anything.

11

Anonymous #10 4w

Did nit know all bi people were doing this. do you have any proof of your claim besides anecdotal?

10

Anonymous #8 4w

I’ve never dated a bi person. I see this happen time and time again to other gay people. And as for your other comment, yes, anyone can not put effort into a relationship. But it’s a different and more complicated issue when it’s the same group of people who do it over and over again for the same reason. They only want the gay person for attention/fun but cannot commit to them because they don’t want the stigma of being perceived as gay throughout their life, and when they find someone more soci

-5

Anonymous #8 4w

When they find someone more socially acceptable they run with that. When the other person has no choice but to deal with that judgment no matter who they date

-4

Anonymous #2 4w

Do you have proof otherwise that’s not anecdotal?

-4

Anonymous #10 4w

Wow i didn’t know every single bi person ever does this!

16

Anonymous #2 4w

Reading comprehension goes a long way #2! Find me where I said that and I’ll Venmo you $2m

-5

Anonymous #10 4w

You implied it. You didn’t state it directly but by saying “bi people” you are talking about all bi people…

6

Anonymous #7 4w

So you admit that it’s an issue?

-5

Anonymous #2 4w

You could argue I “implied“ it but I never said that. I actually said the exact opposite many times to make my stance clear. Not all but far too many

-4

Anonymous #10 4w

Okay if you feel this way simply don’t date bi people. Problem solved. These vague “other gay people” don’t need your rainbow savioring. It’s for everyone to decide what they’re willing to accept in any relationship. This sociopathic style of dating you’re describing that you allege is signature to the bi-community is a fallacy based in wounds and not reality.

17

Anonymous #8 4w

Mind you again I have never ever talked to a bi person romantically or sexually or anything of the sort. I can just see with my eyes what happens when you fuck with the wrong crowd

-7

Anonymous #10 4w

inciting unwarranted infighting, pack it up CIA agent

8

Anonymous #3 4w

&, like, what? Is the purple rod gonna ejaculate sperm too?! I don’t think so!

5

Anonymous #11 4w

I mean some women do have dicks and ejaculate sperm too. The argument about the strap is stupid for a lot of reasons

1

Anonymous #10 4w

So you’ve never experienced it, you’re just basing these opinions of them being “the wrong crowd”

5

Anonymous #12 4w

*on

4

Anonymous #12 4w

Reading comprehension. I’ve seen it happen time and time again like I said. I’ll give specific examples because you can’t seem to comprehend

-4

Anonymous #12 4w

My bi exfriend M confided in me that she was going to break up with her GF A because she said she could never see herself long term with a woman. She broke up with her then used her for sex for months after while she was talking to a new guy

-4

Anonymous #12 4w

My lesbian friend A got repeatedly harassed and called the D-slur by her male friends bisexual gf E, because she hung out with him twice and E was jealous and thought A was going for him. This also reminds me of how bi people will say “everyone’s a little bisexual“ when that is just not true

-4

Anonymous #12 4w

My gay friend was talking to a bi guy I and it turned out he was just using him to get close to his female friends. As soon as I got close to the other friends he dropped my friend

-3

Anonymous #12 4w

My other bi exfriend M told me and a few other friends that were bi that she thought lesbians were weird and she could never imagine having any type of relationship with a woman unless a man she was with made her do it. All of the bi people in attendance agreed with her

-3

Anonymous #12 4w

My friend was talking to a bi girl that started hitting on me when she saw photos of me and when I told her her I’m gay she stopped talking to both of us and told everyone we were bullying her (we never talked about her even among just the 2 of us)

-3

Anonymous #10 4w

Think of it like this, all the people from New Hampshire I've ever met have been bullies. Are all New Hampshire residents bullies? No. Were those New Hampshire residents that bullied me bullies because they're from New Hampshire? Also no. Those bi people were mean because they're mean people, not because they're bi.

15

Anonymous #10 4w

It sounds like you just know a lot of shitty people. No bi person I've ever met has acted like that. Just because you know awful people who happen to be bi, does not make bi people "the wrong crowd" or awful.

16

Anonymous #12 4w

Right stop hanging with these weirdos!!! I know bi people that hold being bi with the highest reverence. I love my friends so much. We are here we are queer!!!

8

Anonymous OP 4w

Dm me right now

-1