Anonymous #1 16h

Omg I’m so glad ppl agree w me I really was scared 😭😭😭 but yeah like for one thing, I lowkey feel like a lot of people who say they’re Demi sexual absolutely are sexually attracted to people they just don’t want to have sex till they’re in a relationship Which like great! More power to you! I just am not sure why we need a flag for that😭

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Anonymous #3 16h

And I’m going to be really brave and go a step further and say lowkey, it just so happens that I feel like every time I see someone identify with it, it’s in a laundry list of other identities and it’s just like ok I guess idk

4

Anonymous OP 16h

I think it kinda came out of that tumblr era where people were microlabeling every feeling and calling it a new identity. Which great that we’re identifying feelings and emotions but I don’t think sexuality needs to be heavily labeled because it’s so different from person to person

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Anonymous #3 16h

Yes exactly like I think we kinda hit the nail on the head with the pretty broad things we already have. At some point the micro labels get to the point where it’s just like performative

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Anonymous #5 10h

Want to explain another side of things?

1

Anonymous #6 9h

Could someone with low libido label themselves as demisexual ?

4

Anonymous OP 9h

It’s mostly just about respect and acceptance. Even if you don’t understand the point of a label, the people using it clearly find it helpful. It’s not hurting you, it’s not causing problems, in the worst possible case it’s slightly confusing.

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Anonymous #4 9h

I mean let me be clear I’m not going around telling people to stop using it, it’s just unnecessary in my opinion My opinion just doesn’t actually mean anything

1

Anonymous OP 9h

I would say no! asexuality and its micro labels are specifically referring to sexual attraction. your libido and how you have sex may be affected by asexuality but they are not what makes you asexual if that makes sense

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Anonymous OP 9h

libido isn’t the same thing as attraction. You can be pan and find almost everyone sexually attractive and still have low libido. you can be ace and have very high libido. people with low libido can be demi but it’s not the same thing

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Anonymous #4 9h

How can you be ace and have a high libido now this just doesn’t make sense at all

2

Anonymous OP 9h

This is a genuine question sorry

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Anonymous OP 9h

as I said, attraction is different from libido which is different from wanting to have sex. I know several very horny ace people, they just are more interested in the activity of sex/masturbation than in a partner. Not every ace person is sex adverse

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Anonymous OP 9h

because if you have a dick rubbing it still feels good lol. if you're asexual you do not get turned on by people but you still have all the physical sensations and hormones that can cause arousal

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Anonymous #6 9h

sorry if that's too crass it's just the easiest way to explain

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Anonymous #6 9h

This is a genuinely good explanation ty

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Anonymous #4 9h

While I do know that not every ace person is sex adverse, I’ll be so fr, I cannot imagine a horny ace person. Like that just feels like the whole point is defeated and idk why you would bother to claim that identity when you’re a major outlier in the community.

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Anonymous OP 9h

I don’t know how to say this less rudely, but I don’t think it’s any of your business to have an opinion on someone else’s identity. I’m genuinely not trying to be rude, but I’m really not sure how else to say it. You don’t need to understand something to be polite and non-dismissive about it.

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Anonymous #5 9h

I’m trying to understand this from a sociological perspective mostly. I don’t mind and I don’t think you’re being rude, and even if you were being rude I wouldn’t really care. Also, people will have opinions on literally everything it’s the human condition

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Anonymous OP 9h

This is such a stupid comment. I hope you’re not for real here.

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Anonymous OP 9h

I really kind of doubt your authenticity at this point, dude. I’m just going to refer you to Asexuality.org Poke around on it for a bit. You’ll find answers, if you care to actually read them.

3

Anonymous OP 9h

I understand why you would say that, but I think you’re thinking about labels in a bit of a different way than I am. Saying you’re ace describes your attraction to others and nothing else. Libido is connected, but every ace person is different. Same way saying you’re a woman shouldn’t imply that you’re interested in traditionally feminine things, even if it’s more common

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Anonymous #5 9h

I don’t know why I’d have any reason to lie about this? I’m currently going through my college’s database to find scientific peer reviewed studies on it so I fear I will be “actually reading”

4

Anonymous #4 9h

This is a good way to phrase it. I guess that does make more sense!

5

Anonymous OP 9h

If you’re looking for peer-reviewed science on asexuality, you’ll be looking for a long-ass time. There’s not much yet, for a variety of reasons. Try looking for ace people sharing their experiences online. Ace Dad Advice comes to mind. They can help orient you, and give you a personal perspective which is *absolutely necessary* to understanding identities.

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Anonymous #5 9h

Actually there’s 284 results in this database that are peer reviewed and either empirical qualitative or quantitative

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Anonymous #6 9h

my thing tho is demisexual only makes sense if it comes with gay or bi or straight or whatever bc if you’re hypothetically attracted to people like who is it

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Anonymous #2 9h

I think the difference is romantic attraction to people with no sexual attraction

2

Anonymous OP 9h

But it does deff beg the question like can you truly be one specific romantic orientation without attraction having any influence

4

Anonymous OP 9h

demisexual does not refer to experiencing sexual attraction after being in a relationship, it refers to the *inability* to feel sexual attraction until a certain emotional intimacy is established. allosexuals can feel sexual attraction to people prior to relationships & early on in them; some demisexual people take months. it’s extremely isolating for many people, as they simply do not feel sexual attraction outside of specific conditions.

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Anonymous OP 9h

Maybe this is just my stem major talking, but that’s not a big number. I could be wrong there, psych isn’t my field, maybe it’s big in that area. But regardless, those studies are probably not going to answer your questions about identity. They’re more likely to be about the interactions between asexuals and the world (based on my limited knowledge of how psych studies work, it’s been a minute since I was in a psych class and it’s not my field of study)

5

Anonymous #5 9h

Why would I not be serious. I would just be very surprised and confused if I met someone who was like hi I’m ace and I was like oh ok they probably don’t engage in a whole lot of sexual activity then come to find out they’re beating it twice a day. I also don’t really understand HOW you can be horny with no object like i absolutely understand the pleasure aspect but how are you having sexual desires just in like an abstract disconnected way

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Anonymous OP 9h

Demisexuality doesn’t necessarily imply anything about romantic orientation.

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Anonymous #7 9h

labels are used as a framework and a tool. they are “necessary” in how they provide community to those with diverse experiences in an allonormative society. many demisexuals—and aspecs in general—feel like there’s something fundamentally missing from them, which is incredibly isolating. identifying with an existing label provides a precedent to those feelings, which is vindicating. it turns a source of loneliness into a source of connection. that’s why it’s necessary.

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Anonymous OP 9h

I don’t know what to tell you dude, some people don’t feel sexual attraction but the part of their brain that makes them horny didn’t get the memo.

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Anonymous #5 9h

I’d deff be interested to talk to someone who felt like that. I can’t fathom how that works

4

Anonymous OP 9h

It shouldn’t be hard to find by just googling around—there’s a decent amount of ace YouTubers and other influencers who talk about their experiences.

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Anonymous #5 9h

While it’s not a huge number it’s absolutely enough to where I will not be “looking for a long ass time” Also that’s ok my questions really aren’t about identities, and no while there are absolutely studies that look at th experiences of ace people with others and with society that’s more social psych/sociology. I’m currently much more interested in the cognitive neuro side of things

3

Anonymous OP 9h

you never just felt generally horny without it being triggered by another person? like ever just wake up and be like hm i’m horny

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Anonymous #5 9h

There also are some studies that look at identity as well

3

Anonymous #2 9h

When I wake up and I’m like damn I’m horny I want to fuck. Like I guess in my mind they would just be beating off to nothing thinking about nothing so like yeah when I’m horny there’s at least some vague sense of an object of my desire if that makes sense

4

Anonymous #5 9h

frankly I’m unsure why it’s “necessary” to look into quantitative studies when there’s an entire community built around it. aspecs get questioned by other queer people constantly, which seems hypocritical as many people use their own individual experience as an outsider to criticize and examine any queer label. us identifying the way we do—authentically and for a long time—should be proof enough.

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Anonymous OP 9h

another way to think about this is that sexual actions do not impact your sexuality! like if a straight guy likes being pegged that does not make him gay. personally my asexuality does affect the way I have sex, I don't like giving oral and overall I'm not a very active participant. but I still enjoy sex because it feels good! besides gay men have been successfully procreating with women for eons so obviously it's possible to have successful sex even if you're not attracted to the other person

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Anonymous #6 8h

Yeah absolutely understand that for sure. Like you can reach climax without thinking of anything in particular. I guess the part I’m lost on is the horny ness lol

3

Anonymous #7 8h

This 1000000%

1

Anonymous OP 8h

ig maybe it’s a person to person thing because me personally in that situation i think i wanna nut not necessarily i wanna fuck

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Anonymous #7 8h

It’s not “necessary” I’m doing it because I’m interested in understanding what cognition could lead to a lack of sexual desire And I’d be really really interested to understand if there is actually like a difference in brain activity with someone who identifies as demisexual with their partner before they like get to know them and then after. As far as the last part “this is how we have always done things” has rarely served history well and curiosity and questioning are vital in furthering our

3

Anonymous #7 8h

Knowledge and understanding of the world

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Anonymous #5 8h

Tbh I’d want to talk to someone about that who i actually know because then i could get specific answers

5

Anonymous #5 8h

I guess that’s where I’m confused too because there’s not really different parts of the brain for that

4

Anonymous OP 8h

for me personally it's not really caused by anything external unless I'm actively touching myself, I think it's really just hormones. like I tend to feel horny when I'm on my period, it's never really caused by anything it's just a feeling I'll randomly get. it's just a craving basically! like I'm sure sometimes you randomly crave pizza but it's not because you're thinking about it or smelled it, it'll just happen sometimes

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Anonymous #7 8h

What do you mean by allonormativity remains invasive and unchallenged 🤨

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Anonymous #2 8h

horniness is a feeling that wants to be expressed, so people will express that in whatever way brings the most pleasure. high libido aces & high libido allos will simply have different things that pleasure them. an allo’s mind will drift to an object, since that’s what’s most pleasuring. that’s why there’s a discrepancy.

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Anonymous #8 8h

…it remains invasive and unchallenged? as opposed to heteronormativity or cisnormativity, which at least have *some* discussion outside of queer spaces? I’m not sure how to further elaborate, unless you do so first

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Anonymous #7 8h

Like what is it “invading” exactly Are you just saying it’s thought of as the default? Not trying to sound stupid but why would you be challenging other people’s sexuality

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Anonymous #7 8h

Scientific studies that are hard evidence backed are pretty important I’d say

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Anonymous #6 8h

Ok I can see that I guess

1

Anonymous OP 8h

the queer community in general pulls much of its validity from historical presence, as many people refute it by denying its historical presence. precedent is important when it supports and validates internal identity. your statement applies more to dogma or norms.

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Anonymous #6 8h

I appreciate your consistently genuine and engaging responses as well!

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Anonymous #8 8h

I meant pervasive that’s mb lol

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Anonymous #7 8h

I’m not really interested in the lasting historical presence of a group I’m interested in the science behind asexuality

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Anonymous #7 8h

Gotchya. I still don’t totally understand why that’s an issue that it’s pervasive when it’s the way the majority of the population identifies

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Anonymous #8 8h

do you believe we need studies to prove the psychosocial causes of queerness before we accept it? and if you believe scientific studies on queerness are necessary for any conclusion, then I assume you object to the comments from others calling it “unecessary” or making other assumptions?

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Anonymous OP 8h

ofc!! I've been out as asexual since I was 12 so I'm very used to explaining my experiences at this point lol

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Anonymous #7 8h

I wasn’t talking about psychosocial causes of queerness! I also definitely did not say that I think scientific studies on queerness are necessary to form any conclusion

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Anonymous #6 8h

Understandable! I should make clear that mainly I am just curious about it and how it works

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Anonymous #7 8h

Also to be completely honest I have 0 idea what you are talking about with the last part

1

Anonymous #8 8h

do you believe heteronormativity isn’t an issue? or cisnormativity?

1

Anonymous OP 8h

if you look at my comment, I’m responding to a different person :)

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Anonymous #7 8h

Depends on what you mean by an issue

1

Anonymous #7 8h

Yeah the only thing my comment was referring to was your dismissal of quantitative research.

1

Anonymous #7 8h

Whoops! I just assumed you were responding to me since you had neglected to do so prior

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Anonymous OP 8h

if you’re truly interested in the science, please do not validate assumptions made by others. your other comments make it seem like you’ve made up your mind about this, so it’s harder to trust your word. idk what “science” there is behind asexuals, as that’s an extremely general term. you’ve mostly asked about the mechanics of asexuality, which mostly fall under the framework of the SAM. if that’s all you’re asking about, then I recommend you look into it.

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Anonymous #7 8h

What’s the Sam

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Anonymous #8 8h

I’m not dismissing it, I’m pointing out *your* dismissal of millions of testimonies. most of what’s been discussed are the simple mechanics of aspec identities, which people within the community agree on. these are frameworks—again—used and supported by millions. it sounds like you’re dismissing that, claiming we’re only valid within the scientific method.

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Anonymous OP 8h

you hadnt followed up on my comment, so there was no reason for me to respond, as I already had 👍

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Anonymous #8 8h

can you explain why cisnormativity and allonormativity are damaging to queer people? if not, then we don’t share the common context necessary to discuss this in depth.

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Anonymous #8 8h

the Split Attraction Model, which is the basis of non-aroace aspec identities. I recommend researching it, real sources edited by dozens of people are surely more reliable than a YikYak comment :)

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Anonymous #7 8h

I did not dismiss anything or claim that anyone was only valid within the scientific method. I literally just was saying “hey! Scientific data is also really important to understanding human behavior” that’s all! Sorry you misunderstood me i obviously didn’t actually give you much to go on since i wasn’t anticipating you would be reading into what I said so much

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Anonymous #7 8h

Well that’s not true i actually had responded to you lol

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Anonymous #7 8h

I think I explained it in some other comments that you may not have seen but they also may have been on the other post so idk. The science I’m interested in is not social science I’m interested in the neuro cognitive processing differences in asexual people when it comes to processing sexual stimuli as well as the emotional and physiological/cognitive responses to said stimuli

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Anonymous #7 8h

As far as the SAM, while that does explain the difference in attraction it doesn’t explain the continued presence of sexual arousal in ace people, which is another thing that I find interesting

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Anonymous OP 8h

well I'm happy to help if you have any more questions! you're also welcome to dm me if you'd like

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Anonymous #7 8h

Oh just that there’s a difference yeah I know that just hadn’t heard the specific name. But yeah I’m sure the experts can explain it better than you can I just didn’t know what SAM stood for

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Anonymous OP 8h

oh, if that’s you’re actual question, then yeah I have no idea lol. I’m a biomed going into neuroscience research, but that’s not my area of expertise. it probably varies from person to person, since there’s so much nuance to aspec identities

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Anonymous #7 8h

many of the grayace labels come from conditional attraction, and many asexuals I’ve talked with simply have such hyper-specific barriers to attraction that they’re asexual. I imagine there will be people whose brains fire differently, but others will be the same but react to certain stimuli

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Anonymous #7 8h

I mean everything varies from person to person and holds a great deal of nuance when it comes to the conceptualization of individual identities, which is kinda exactly why I’d be interested in looking at arousal responses because you don’t have to like do a whole operational definition and all that shit

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Anonymous #7 8h

maybe a bit tmi (but I find it interesting from this perspective), but I realized a year ago I was entirely asexual but—because of allonormativity—I thought & was told my fixation on certain objects must’ve been sexual, so I got sexual pleasure from thinking about them while horny. later on, I realized I had fundamentally different underlying reasons for why I was fixated on those things. rather than expressing them through sex/masturbation, I found more gratification elsewhere

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Anonymous #7 8h

…so I’m curious about the cognitive/neurological components accompanying those feelings & tendencies, and how they compare to both other asexuals & allos

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Anonymous #7 8h

Yeah you pavloved yourself lol

1

Anonymous OP 8h

kind of, yeah. in a weird way, since the “pleasurable” stimulus wasn’t really pleasurable, I just convinced myself it was because of what I’ve been told. maybe the “reward” was just confirming to norms lmao

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Anonymous #7 8h

I said before I’d be very interested to see if someone who identified as demisexual had a difference in brain activity regarding their partner at the beginning of a relationship vs later in the relationship

1

Anonymous #7 8h

Wym reward

0

Anonymous #8 8h

you likely had different context of OP’s intentions than I, and you also didn’t express understanding of aspec identities elsewhere, so I assumed your intent was bad. apologies for that, we just get so much flak that it’s hard not to be hostile, rip

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Anonymous OP 8h

Ohhh like classical conditioning No in that case the “reward” in question would be an orgasm. You don’t actually have to get a literal reward, it’s just pairing 2 stimuli together repeatedly your brain associates one with the other

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Anonymous #7 8h

It’s ok i understand, i probably approached the conversation with biases as well due to some of my experiences with the asexual community

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Anonymous OP 8h

I can’t express enough how awful the orgasm made me feel, so I doubt that’s the case. I may have simply been deep in denial, tbh

1

Anonymous OP 8h

I suppose, though current operational definitions certainly inform potential avenues for explanation. the amount of different aspec identities speaks to that lol. a lot of nuance to explore

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Anonymous #7 8h

I mean did it hurt or something? Like orgasms are usually pleasurable regardless of the emotional guilt

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Anonymous #7 8h

Well yes, that’s why I would want to look into cog neuro rather than something that you can’t really quantify

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Anonymous #8 8h

happens, anecdotal experiences with people who aren’t super outspoken on their identities (outside of the community) can be pretty common. happened to me with a few trans people, and it took me a bit to unravel those biases. it happens, and you have the courage to admit it, so thank you for communicating that

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Anonymous #7 7h

Tbh it’s kinda an ongoing thing but I just try to ignore it because I hope it’s not the attitudes of the community at large but I just realllyyyyy don’t fw how quickly asexual people go from lamenting about not being listened to or understood from their own perspectives to saying really demeaning and harmful and honestly ignorant shit about people having and wanting sex

1

Anonymous OP 7h

I’m kind of confused how you’d quantify people reacting to different groups of stimuli without making operational definitions for the groups you’re examining, if that makes sense. like you said with demi people, you’d first have to identify them under the “demi” label, then identify the condition of “sufficiently emotionally intimate” in some way too. those are hard to quantify, so I’m curious about your answer to that

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Anonymous #7 7h

Since Demi people say that they don’t have any sexual desire for their partner at first and then later develop it I’d like to look at the brain activity before (when they say that they don’t feel sexual attraction) and after (when they say they do) to see what/if there is any measurable difference in arousal

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Anonymous #8 7h

I’ve met sex-repulsed aces irl, and they’re generally chill. only one of them had a specific boundary with a specific person who’d go into detail on having sex with her gf in 1-on-1 convos, and as far as I know they were both respectful about it. it’s different online, since we’re naturally speaking mostly from our own POVs on these topics, and it’s easy for anyone to be ignorant. ime aspecs are generally very chill, though most I know irl

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Anonymous #7 7h

Wow wait is that a real like term people use sex repulsed? There’s gotta be a tamer term we can start using 😭

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Anonymous #7 7h

It’s unfortunately a lot of purity culture rhetoric that I’ve seen among other things I deff remember seeing someone say that “if your relationship depends on sex you need to reevaluate that” in a conversation of why people sometimes don’t date ace people because they have different sexual needs than them which I thought was soooo mf dumb like there’s not heaps of evidence that bedroom satisfaction is linked to relational satisfaction

1

Anonymous #8 7h

repulsed as in repulsion. I think of it more as magnetic repulsion. and if I said I’m repulsed by cherry tomatoes, I can’t imagine you’d take offense if you liked them. it’s just different preferences, though mine might be vehement.

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Anonymous #8 7h

yeah, that sounds like either pure ignorance or a misspoken point. either way, I understand your frustration, as much of that talk is mirrored onto us. though it’s frankly confusing to me to hear ace people engaging in purity culture when almost every aspec identity includes some sort of sexual journey. acespecs are generally the most sexuality-accepting people I’ve known lol

5

Anonymous #7 7h

Well sure but we also can agree that there’s a bigggg difference between cherry tomatoes and an essential part of life, especially when it’s already incredibly stigmatized and shamed especially for women. When you grow up your whole life being told by society that having sex makes you dirty then the term sex “repulsed” is absolutely understandably going to create pause

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Anonymous #7 7h

I guess if you’re not in-community, you don’t hear much of that discussion, but we do talk about it frequently (at least, the people I know do, since there’s so much nuance within the spectrum)

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Anonymous OP 7h

so both criteria are self-identified? I suppose that makes sense. thanks for sharing your ideas :)

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Anonymous #8 7h

I understand the initial reaction, but the repulsed-averse-neutral-favored-positive thing is entirely around someone’s personal inclination. the connotation changes a ton when you consider the context. I’m sex repulsed/averse, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to see you differently for having sex lol. knowing a lot of ace people & myself informs the terms, which I guess is why your initial reaction was negative—you didn’t have that context

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Anonymous #7 7h

also, I’m firmly against “softening” the term. sex-averse is a softer version since the *feeling* is lesser. “sex-repulsed” or a similarly vehement term is necessary for expressing… well, repulsion. I was going to say “extreme dislike,” but that—again—doesn’t communicate the gravity. we normally don’t discuss it outside of community, anyways, so allos often don’t know that context unless they’re familiar with then nuance of aspec identities

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Anonymous #8 7h

like #7 said a lot of people who say that kind of thing are speaking from ignorance. I think almost every asexual person understands that most people have strong sexual needs and that's totally okay! but if you're interested in an ace person actually ask them whether they're interested in sex or not, we're not a hive mind. I do think though the hardest part of having an asexual partner is the lack of attraction, in my experience partners take that a lot harder then they thought they would

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Anonymous OP 7h

nope, it just felt invasive, violating. I think I could subconsciously tell something wasn’t right. I can’t put into words why I felt that way, and still do. that was my first sexual experience ever, and it’s been consistent ever since

1

Anonymous #6 7h

I’ve actually taken it harder than my partners, but yeah. a lot of aspecs have repressed or been otherwise harmed by allonormativity & its assumptions, which in turn leads to (valid) resentment of those norms. I’ve seen a ton of queer people online of all identities be spiteful towards others—often other queer people—because they knew they were frustrated but didn’t know why, exactly. not a justification, more of an explanation to show it’s not a common consensus lol

1

Anonymous OP 7h

That sounds like an interesting experiment, but it seems difficult to get a good sample, it would be really hard to take before measurements for any demisexuals besides those who commit to dating before any attraction is formed. I’m not completely sure, but I would guess that it’s much more common for close friendships to evolve into more, with no sexual contact before that attraction has already formed.

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Anonymous #7 7h

Yeah that’s kinda wild it would be nice if there was a softer term for that

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Anonymous #8 7h

unfortunately, a harsh term is necessary. people simply don’t Get It for ace people, and sometimes they have harsh feelings about how sex feels to them. I’m sorry if it’s interpreted to reflect onto you or others, but it simply isn’t in any way

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Anonymous #4 6h

yeah, it’s like Reddit but worse since this increases the margin or wtv a ton with each response 😭

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Anonymous #7 5h

Yeah it’s confusing to me too but wow it’s a lot of it! I can deff find some screenshots that I have

1