Anonymous OP 5d

the oop’s comments on ‘wanting the presentation to match the genitals’ is weird enough bc ur bi and ur attracted to both? who tf gaf. but even so, there are plenty of trans ppl who have had bottom surgery. like they just need to accept they’re transphobic and move on. nobody is a bigot for not accepting ur transphobia 😭😭

52

Anonymous #3 5d

please read the excerpt from the bi manifesto, which was published in the 90s, that was posted today.

18

Anonymous #3 5d

If you just don't want to do one thing because of your boundaries, it’s different if you didn't want to be with or do anything with a trans person at all

5

Anonymous #2 5d

Cis is Latin for “on this side of” and trans is “across from.” Cis and trans are adjectives to describe the gender the person identifies as…

-12

Anonymous #1 5d

#1 is OP of the quoted post, btw.

25

Anonymous #2 5d

I dont understand why I am getting downvoted. I am seeking clarification on people opinion of the distinction between pan and bi to include trans nonbinary people. That in no way assumes there are only two genders and infact implicitly assumes a gender spectrum as the premise of the question. The bisexual manifesto is a great article but I think using it as a definitional source is disingenuous.

-4

Anonymous #3 5d

the difference between bi and pan is individual personal preference.

13

Anonymous #1 5d

But that’s not what my question was. My question was on people’s opinions on using pan vs bi to distinguish between those people who are attracted to the male v female binary (this includes both cis and trans males and females) vs those who’s attraction includes non binary people. Or additionally genderfluid people or even agender people. I think these are very reasonable distinctions and in no way invalidates anyone’s gender identity.

-1

Anonymous #3 5d

what you’re suggesting is a distinction between the two that doesn’t exist.

11

Anonymous #3 5d

and shouldn’t exist. your suggestion erases the historical inclusivity of bisexuality.

12

Anonymous #3 5d

Pan don’t have preferences and don’t see gender binary as a problem. Bi MIGHT have preferences and can prefer certain gender binaries over another.

0

Anonymous #4 5d

I’m really just trying to understand this idea. To me what the bisexual manifesto outlines (which I assume is your reference to the historic inclusivity of bisexuality, since the definitional term is quite new 70s-90s) is nearly paradoxical. It seeks to claim that people outside of bisexuality have no space to speak on the identity of bisexuals. It says that only members of the bisexual community can say what their sexuality means. It seeks to avoid pigeon holeing and creates a definition (pt1)

-4

Anonymous #3 5d

can i ask something? are you bi, pan, nonbinary, or trans? or is this all theoretical for you?

11

Anonymous #3 5d

the manifesto explicitly does *not* create a definition. anyway, it’s not my reference for the historical inclusivity of bisexuality—this is extremely and repeatedly well documented. it’s just the easiest one to cite for people who are completely unfamiliar with queer history.

8

Anonymous #1 5d

Okay? That does not mean cis and trans are genders (Which they are not). Cis and trans are descriptors used to describe your gender. They themselves are not genders. A gender is man, woman, nonbinary, genderfluid, etc. As a trans man, my gender would be man, and “trans” is the descriptor of the type of man I am

40

Anonymous #3 5d

Ok so how I describe bi vs pan to my mom vs people questioning the difference is this: imagine you’re at a vending machine. Straight people buy a Pepsi. Gay people buy a coke. Bi people might buy a Pepsi, or a coke; depends on the mood. Pan people just put money in and press a button with their eyes closed.

7

Anonymous #3 5d

(Pt 2) that is fluid to any gender. However you claim then that I’m suggesting a distinction between the two (bi vs pan) that doesn’t exist nor shouldn’t exist. This leads then to the confusion then, because as someone who identifies as pan to include a full gender spectrum, under your stance I am now bisexual and you are seeking to define my sexuality. But the manifesto says “We do not need others to tell us who we are or what our bisexuality means.” But then that’s exactly what you are doing.

-4

Anonymous #1 5d

Transgender is the label for somebody who does not identify with their assigned gender at birth. It cannot, by definition, be a gender itself

27

Anonymous #3 5d

i’m explicitly not defining your sexuality, your label is up to you. the distinction/choice between bi and pan is up to personal preference, like i said. what you’re doing as a non-bisexual is trying to define bisexuality in an exclusive way. which is what the manifesto directs non-bisexuals to do, and is clearly hypocritical in your part as you object to me defining your sexuality (something i am not doing), but clearly feel comfortable doing for others.

6

Anonymous #3 5d

just like others don’t get to define pansexuality for you, you don’t get to define bisexuality for others.

11

Anonymous #2 5d

So you’re saying that intersex is a third gender?

-10

Anonymous #3 5d

you completely misunderstand the fundamentals of what it means to be bisexual or pansexual. the ‘bi’ and ‘pan’ prefixes are misleading and often what ppl (such as urself) get hung up on. bisexuality has always included nonbinary people. their inclusion has never dictated a person being bi or pan. #1’s vending machine analogy is actually really clever. bisexuality means u have a gender preference (ex. i am bi but prefer men usually, tho sometimes its changes for me). pansexuality means u—

2

Anonymous #3 5d

—experience no gender preference. aka gender plays NO sort of role in attraction. if this changes your sexuality in that u find u have a gender preference, congrats, welcome to bisexuality!! but also it’s not that deep. if you are just uncomfortable labeling yourself as bi bc you’ve used the pan label for so long, then be pan!! no one is gonna force u to call urself anything. all these labels are social constructs meant to give people peace/comfort anyways. embrace the beauty of queerness!!

3

Anonymous OP 5d

Bi means two OR more genders (the “or” specifies the preferences) while pan means two AND more genders (the “and” means no preferences).

-3

Anonymous #1 5d

snore you bore me with your menial semantics, translate all of cicero’s pro caelio from the actual latin before you argue that garbage here

28

Anonymous OP 5d

Intersex is people who are physically born with male and female genitals, chromosomes, or reproductive organs. They don’t fit under the definition of male/female/trans. How would you describe them?

-7

Anonymous #1 5d

completely

16

Anonymous OP 5d

“Romantically”. That’s not completely excluded.

-4

Anonymous #1 5d

doing anything to justify it LOLLL girl turn off post notifs and touch grass

11

Anonymous OP 5d

I like how you didn’t involve the comment saying where trans people can go down on me but just not vise versa. Once again, limited due to boundaries and preferences for sexual attraction, not completely 😘

-4

Anonymous #1 5d

…intersex 😭😭 but also ppl who r intersex often are assigned a gender at birth and will often identify themselves as a certain gender!! being intersex is super complex, so we can let them make those distinctions in their identities since it has nothing to do with me :)

30

Anonymous OP 5d

And who I choose to sleep with has nothing to do with you, even though you seem to think it does

-7

Anonymous #1 5d

tut tut ur banned from latin already, using greek prefixes is no better! i want homer’s iliad translated before you touch that!! the prefixes are not meant to be taken so literally, which you also do a very poor job of. bi means TWO, pan means ALL if you’re gonna be so rudimentary

9

Anonymous #1 5d

girl u made it everyone else’s issue why r u surprised when we call transphobia transphobia 😭

27

Anonymous #1 5d

you’re desperately trying to defend urself it’s so funny to me. like this logic is comical 😭

17

Anonymous OP 5d

Ok so bisexual people can have sex with nonbinary people, intersex people, agender, or genderfluid? Damn, that’s transphobic since it can only be the two “binary” genders?

-4

Anonymous OP 5d

Why is it anyone’s issue? Explain that? Do you get mad at everyone and claim they’re transphobic because they won’t fuck you?

-6

Anonymous OP 5d

and for clarity i read both latin and ancient greek. i tell u from actually having studied language that you can’t use language in such a rudimentary way to explain such complex concepts

6

Anonymous #1 5d

girl if u don’t see that i was showing u that u can’t define words simply based on the prefix ur a lost cause

11

Anonymous #4 5d

Again I am not defining bisexuality, I was seeking opinions on the distinction between bisexual and pansexual. You then brought up the bisexual manifesto which seeks to define bisexuality, I then brought up my qualm that the bisexual manifesto seems paradoxical for the reasons I mentioned. I infact do not particularly enjoy a taxonomical approach to something as continuous as a gender spectrum, however I understand that even a vague taxonomy provides some utility at the cost of pigeonholeing.(1)

-3

Anonymous #1 5d

girl i don’t wanna fuck you 😭 as i said, there’s plenty of reasons for someone not to want to be with trans ppl, but the logic that YOU posted of YOUR free will PUBLICLY for EVERYONE to see is transphobic. no one is gonna force u to do what u don’t want to do, but u can’t get mad at ppl calling a spade a spade. ur welcome to live life how u want, but u can’t get mad and yell “BIGOTS!!!” if ppl respond in a way u don’t like

26

Anonymous OP 5d

Bro you’re literally throwing a fit because I don’t want to go down on trans people. People have boundaries in bed. I will gladly date and let a trans person go down on me, I just don’t want to go down on them. And I never called anyone a bigot, you called me transphobic because I have ONE specific boundary that you seem to hate 😭

-6

Anonymous #1 5d

I don’t even like sucking dick. Does that mean I’m sexist for not wanting to put a dick in my mouth?

-4

Anonymous OP 5d

Preference is not a *universally agreed upon* distinction. I know many “genderblind” bisexuals and a few pansexuals with preferences. If that distinction is important to you that’s cool, but like #4 said, it’s personal preference. I’m honestly not sure when the language of “preference” entered the popular definitions, probably about the time we (as a community) finally started to get people to move away from the old (and wrong) “bi means two, pan means all” schtick.

14

Anonymous #4 5d

(2) the confusion arises because for instance you say I am a non-bisexual, but since you assert or atleast reference material that asserts bisexuality is more fluid, I (for the sake of argument — I have never meant to explicitly state my sexuality) would then be a bisexual, and thus am allowed to speak on the notion of bisexuality according to the manifesto. Maybe you can clarify to me why that’s not contradictory.

-3

Anonymous #5 5d

Everyone has their own preferences. Bisexual people can prefer gender binaries over the other while pansexual people typically don’t.

-3

Anonymous OP 5d

See I agree with this, I think the desire to have a taxonomy on a spectrum is what causes the problem. You cannot have a taxonomy on for instance light. We can distinguish red blue and green but as we refine our search we must develop more taxonomy’s to develop precision but these taxonomy’s inherently separate certain characteristics that need not be separated. My question was NOT on what is the correct definition, but on people opinions out of curiousity.

-3

Anonymous #1 5d

girl u just have to accept that ur REASONING is transphobic. not wanting to go down on someone bc their genitals “don’t fit” IS TRANSPHOBIC if u don’t have a genital preference otherwise. u literally stated that u prefer cis genitals. because what reason is there for that? because it makes u uncomfortable or u find it gross? that’s just transphobic. again, live ur life how u want, but u have to accept that the reasoning you shared of your own volition is rooted in bigotry—which btw u were-

23

Anonymous #1 5d

-insinuating in others saying that they were being biphobic or invalidating ur bisexuality

23

Anonymous OP 5d

So if someone is gay and they prefer to only have sex with cisgender men, are they transphobic?

-5

Anonymous #4 5d

Also I hate yak for this because it doesn’t link to specific comments so it’s hard to organize responses, but if I’m not mistaken, bisexuality as it is used today specifically developed through the 70s/90s via stonewall and the bisexual manifesto, queer history before that definitionally used different words to describe what we today call bisexuality Ofcourse. So I think if you want to talk about pre stone wall ‘bisexuality’ we need to look through an anthropological lens on how it was presented

-6

Anonymous #1 5d

And no it’s not that it’s uncomfortable or gross, it’s because I like cum and that pussies get naturally wet, and after bottom surgery it’s not the same as a cis gender persons. Your dick after ftm bottom surgery doesn’t have the same sexual appeal to me due to not having semen compared to my boyfriends because his does.

-5

Anonymous #5 5d

yeah fair enough, honestly it’s the only clear distinction i can make between the two that’s not rooted in transphobia in some way. tbh in my opinion the two are more synonymous then they are separate and the label ppl choose is mostly based on comfort/preference. semantical arguments are so stupid

15

Anonymous #1 5d

so ppl without bottom surgery should be fine for u???

19

Anonymous #1 5d

As the gender they identify? What’s your point??

16

Anonymous #1 5d

if they only don’t want to have sex w trans men bc they’re trans? yes. if it’s from a non-trans exclusive reason like a genital preference? no.

24

Anonymous OP 5d

This is the part where I would prefer to have a trans person go down on me during sex. If it’s ftm, I can’t, like, eat pussy and play with boobs, and I don’t like dildos. If it’s mtf, I don’t want to be sucking a dick on a woman. I’d prefer make outs/relationships with trans people, or having them go down on me.

-5

Anonymous #1 5d

It’s purely just a “if I’m going down on/getting penetrated by someone, I just have the cisgender preference.” But idc who goes down on me. And I’ll use a dildo on someone, I just don’t want one to be used on ME since I like the feeling of how cum feels and the pulsing and stuff.

-5

Anonymous #1 5d

so in these imaginary scenarios you’re imagining and never have experienced, why can’t you do those things? what is it that stops you? ‘preference’ is not an answer—WHY do you prefer not to do those things only when they’re trans people?

17

Anonymous #3 5d

honestly it’s just off topic and bringing up a dead horse. you’ve gotten plenty of answers. semantical arguments do no good and have no business on this post.

20

Anonymous #1 5d

“Trans” and “cis” aren’t genders, they’re descriptors of gender. The genders of a trans male, and a cis male are both “male”

14

Anonymous OP 5d

Because I like how dick/semen tastes and I like how pussy tastes.

-2

Anonymous #3 5d

Votes on this app mean nothing and it would be wise to adopt that mindset

-4

Anonymous OP 5d

But the post explicitly a question of semantics. I feel like semantics gets a bad wrap. I’d understand if I was saying “here’s a dictionary definition of bisexuality, you’re not actually pan, you’re just bi” that would be a fair criticism. But the whole post talks about if Transpeople are included in bisexuality, which is a definition statement and so the conversation about bisexuality here is a semantic one. You can say that’s not useful, but then the content of the post isn’t useful either.

-4

Anonymous #6 5d

Ofcourse they technically mean nothing besides a community concensus against a post, but I’m curious why there is atleast some consensus against what I’m saying. Maybe I can learn something.

-2

Anonymous #1 5d

so trans men with pussies… trans women with dicks… they both exist… explain WHY you would not go down on them? they both meet the qualifications you have??

18

Anonymous #3 5d

this post is not about the semantics on bisexuality vs pansexuality. it is addressing the transphobia of the quoted post/comments by that oop. this debate is a dead horse bc it has been beat to death already. trans people are not their own gender, there’s no redefining of bisexuality happening because being trans has never factored into that. u are comfortable with the pan label, congrats. people are TIRED of having this semantics conversation tho. make ur own post about that if u care so bad—

21

Anonymous #3 5d

—but don’t be surprised if people don’t want to beat a dead horse with you. most people r fucking tired of this argument, which you continuing to argue w ppl who are trying to help u end the damn thing r prob why ur getting downvoted

16

Anonymous OP 5d

I fucking already told you. I swear you don’t read or listen, you just want to argue.

-5

Anonymous #1 5d

then restate it for me bc you haven’t actually given a why anywhere other than ‘preference.’ if u truly have a good WHY that is not transphobic, would u not want to clear your name? genuinely if there’s something i’m missing then just say it

14

Anonymous #1 5d

Yes, you've said you don't like when someone has anatomy that does not match their gender. That is a preference you have, and it's still a preference that's rooted in transphobia. If you are attracted to the parts, but not who their attached to because of their transness, that is a preference rooted in transphobia

18

Anonymous #2 5d

Because with how my mind works, if I’m going down on someone with a female figure, I’m gonna be expecting female genitalia. If I’m going down on someone with a male figure, I’m gonna expect male genitalia. Going down on someone who is masc looking but then seeing a pussy, which is typically on women, would just throw me off. Same as going down on someone who is feminine looking and seeing a dick.

-4

Anonymous #1 5d

And that “thrown off” feeling is deep rooted transphobia. It’s your preference, and only you can decide who you want to sleep with. That doesn’t make it less rooted in transphobia

17

Anonymous #2 5d

exactly this. transphobia doesn’t have to be conscious.

19

Anonymous #2 5d

The preference is that I just prefer going down on cis gender people 💀 fucking burn me at the stake for having this preference. Jesus Christ. Trans people can go down on me, I just prefer not to do the same. If a bi woman preferred to not go down on a woman, would you consider her homophobic?

-6

Anonymous #1 5d

We don’t have to burn you at the stake, we just have to call you transphobic. You may not like being called that, because at some level you consider yourself an ally but that preference is a transphobic preference. You can accept that or keep living in denial.

24

Anonymous #1 5d

you are not some victim here. you posted something, people informed u of ur unconscious transphobia. it’s not a crime to have, we all have some deep rooted biases in us. what matters is how we react to them. to acknowledge it is the first step, and it takes time and work to undo them. no one will force u to ever change, but u have to acknowledge it; it’s the bare minimum. if i were u, i’d remove myself from these convos and do some introspection.

18

Anonymous #3 5d

So because I prefer to not go down on trans people because I prefer cis gender genitalia, even though they can go down on me and I’ll date them, I’m transphobic? But if a gay or straight person has the same boundary, it’s fine?

-5

Anonymous #1 5d

Would you go down on both cis gendered men and cis women? If so then yes that’s transphobic, a bi woman may not be any to go down on a cis woman because of a genital preference. If you would go down on cis people with the same genitals as a trans person but not go down on the trans person then it’s clearly not a genital preference and inherently relates to them being trans and thus transphobic

31

Anonymous #1 5d

this is the last time i will entertain your leap in logic. those who have single attraction sexualities often have a genital preference—ie the one typically associated with the gender they prefer. this is not exclusive to trans ppl, it also applies to cis ppl not in their gender attraction. u do not have a genital preference. u r not attracted to trans genitals bc they are attached to trans ppl. this doesn’t make u blatantly transphobic, just that u have some unconscious transphobic biases

20

Anonymous #1 5d

this is not some semantical or victim olympics. it is okay to recognize that u have biases. again, i suggest taking time off this app to revisit this with a calm mindset.

18

Anonymous #1 5d

that’s not even fucking right, i think you’re confusing your futa porn with intersex people

7

Anonymous #1 4d

If a gay or straight person had the same boundary they’d also be called transphobic. You’re not special because you’re bi

9

Anonymous #1 4d

I feel like that comment you made is worse than other things you’ve said. It sounds like you’d just be using them? “Oh they can get me off but I’m not gonna touch them with a ten-foot-pole.” That’s kinda what your comment feels like

4

Anonymous #3 4d

The difference between bisexual and pansexual is technically just bisexual people are attracted to multiple genders. Pansexual people are more-so like, they find everyone pretty, and don’t really use a gendered label to describe why they think that person is pretty, if that makes sense.

5

Anonymous #8 4d

I never once said I’d never NOT touch someone who’s trans? And you do know there’s lots of people who never go down on someone or get sexually aroused by only get used for the other persons pleasure?

-1

Anonymous #8 4d

But also people don’t really use that difference, and they just kinda pick what resonates with them

5

Anonymous #1 4d

I constantly see comments like “I want to worship a goth girl” or “I want a man to worship me” and stuff similar to that. Comments in the bi group are constantly like “I want to worship a woman and have a man worship me.” Is that sexist? No. So why are you saying what I said is SoOo OfFenSiVe because they can go down on me, but I don’t want to go down on them, but I am still 100% fine with dating and making out with them?

0

Anonymous #1 4d

Huh??? Maybe it’s late but could you clarify/fix that last sentence? I get the first half

4

Anonymous #1 4d

Because you’re only saying that about trans individuals. Would you go down on a cis man or a cis woman?

6

Anonymous #8 4d

You said my comment was like “they can get me off but I don’t want to touch them with a 10 foot pole.” 1. I never said I WONT touch them 2. It is normalized for people to be in a sub/Dom relationship where one person basically uses the other for their own pleasure. If a trans person is like “yo, just I want to eat you out/make out with you.” I’d be down for that. Same as a relationship.

0

Anonymous #1 4d

Well yes, but those are when you’re actually in a dynamic. Dynamics are very different than a normal vanilla sexual/romantic relationship. Do you participate in bdsm? Or are you using it as an example?

5

Anonymous #8 4d

Ok so I go down on a cis man and cis woman (I actually prefer going down on cis women over cis men. My bf knows that sucking dick is something I only want to be in the mood for, while pussy is something I’d do 24/7 if I was dating a woman). The thing is, I am sexually aroused by cum/wetness from sexual arousal. MTF bottom surgery does provide wetness, but it’s normally not from arousal. I like knowing that she’s wet because IM making her wet.

0

Anonymous #8 4d

I have a few kinks I think but it’s not a lot. But it’s mainly an example because you can’t say it’s offensive for me to say I want to “have them use me” when it’s normalized in many relationships for one partner to be used by the other. I was also in a relationship before where she didn’t like eating pussy and I did, so I was okay letting her use me for her pleasure. If a trans person liked to know they were pleasing me by eating me out, then I’d be down for that. I could be in a lesbian (1)

0

Anonymous #1 4d

Relationship with someone who’s trans, I just don’t want to go down on her because chances are I’d be unable to make her wet due to the bottom surgery.

-1