Anonymous #3 1w

don't talk to the lesbian you want to be into you all about the men you've dated. it makes you sound like you're still male centered, and lesbians are inherently the LEAST connected to men you can be. As a lesbian myself, i'm fine dating a bi girl, i just don't want to feel like i'm competing for the "better"/"more accepted" option(a man).

82

Anonymous #4 1w

Literally, there are exceptions like one girl I went on a date with told me that she was still nervous to have sex and she wanted us to take things slow bc her ex boyfriend had abused her, and like there was no problem with that and even then it was like a 10 minute conversation not the entire date (which has happened to me before)

38

Anonymous #1 1w

yes!! it's all about common sense. like her saying that makes so much sense and is encouraged. but ive been on dates with bi women who go on and on and on about "how they only date men seriously" and it's like how do you think i can be attracted to you when i want to date to marry and you're saying you'll never want to stay???

26

Anonymous #4 1w

Oh I have had that happen to, it’s the worst! Some bi women treat lesbians as sex objects and it’s so obvious especially when they start talking about only seriously dating men

33

Anonymous #1 1w

yes!! like i say im les4les, not because im biphobic or even am against dating a bi girl. it just gets exhausting being treated like a "good time" for a night or just a "placeholder" before she settles down with a man. like what about my feelings and wants?? bi girls scream biphobia when it's just lesbians who don't want to deal with bullshit like that. AND the bi girls who whine are ALWAYS the same bi girls who treat me like i'm supposed to be their personal fantasy until they find a man.

27

Anonymous #4 1w

got it—so it’s like when men expect us to limit how much we discuss our relationships with women, because otherwise we risk activating their insecurity (based in the presumption that we must automatically prefer women). either way, the rule is that we’re supposed to accommodate others’ poorly-managed dating hangups by censoring ourselves. that’s what I thought, just making sure

-4

Anonymous #3 1w

yes, it is insecurity! because bi girls telling me they'll never take our relationship seriously makes me insecure!! shocker i know

27

Anonymous #3 1w

as a bi woman i’ve literally dealt with the exact same thing they’re describing, except they also expected me to think the same way. “we’re just two girls hooking up for fun but eventually we’ll both grow up and marry men, right?” yUCK.

21

Anonymous #4 1w

it’s definitely bullshit for a woman to go on a date with you and then tell you to your face that she only Seriously dates men, no disagreement there. but “don’t tell me about your ex-bf(s) on the first date, that makes me feel like the lesser option” is something for you to work on, lbr

-5

Anonymous #2 1w

see you get it. they treat their attraction to women as a fun time, and not like it's my life. no i don't want to date you if you "just want to have fun" until you find a guy. if that's insecurity so be it. i'm not bi girls personal fantasies, im a lesbian who wants a real relationship.

9

Anonymous #4 1w

(my first reply to you was in response to your first reply to me, tbc)

-1

Anonymous #4 1w

well no, like I said, if someone’s treating you like an experiment or a brief fling when you’re looking for an actual relationship, it makes perfect sense to be repelled by that. that shit sucks. but take a moment to consider how different that is from being repelled by a potential partner simply talking about their ex partners on a date

-1

Anonymous #3 1w

and i'm telling you 9/10 times, in my personal experience, it has not been appropriate sharing of ex partners. it has been "haha were both women so funny i wanna marry a guy, but i'll date you till a find him!" type of way.

17

Anonymous #4 1w

(emphasis on the “your personal experience” part) you said you’re les4les right? that’s perfectly chill, it’s not anyone’s place to challenge that. but since you’ve already come to the conclusion that you’re not open to dating bi women, I’m not totally clear on why you took it upon yourself to participate in this conversation about how bi women should behave on dates with lesbian women? as in, it should be clear that when I asked for elaboration, you’re not who I was asking

-4

Anonymous #3 1w

I have the same experience as number 4 and I’m not les4les

13

Anonymous #3 1w

i said i'm les4les generally because this treatment is exhausting, and because of experiences like this... it's why i decided on that label for myself. if i end up finding a girl who isn't like this that's bi? i'm fine with that. idk why ur questioning me, someone who's directly experienced this, telling you why it can be off putting to others... trying to help answer ur question with PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND EXPLANATION and ur telling me i'm not the person to answer??

15

Anonymous #4 1w

I mean, based on context you can tell that my initial question was aimed at OP, yeah? since it was concerning OP’s specific wording? your bias against bisexual women is based in specific patterns that have cropped up in your personal experiences with them, I get that. but—controversial take—I think harboring generalized biases about people of any given sexuality is something to avoid, so as far as this subject is concerned, yours isn’t the perspective I’m interested in engaging with

-6

Anonymous #3 1w

hot take; i have my own biases and personal experiences. and you telling me mine aren't relevant and "not the lesbian im asking" because my past experiences made me les4les is weird. and also by the wording of OP's post, it's clear she's also bisexual so she wouldn't be able to answer ur question as a lesbian even if she wanted to.

17

Anonymous #4 1w

(additionally, “don’t tell a lesbian woman you wanna date about all the men you’ve dated” is a Very different statement from “don’t go on a date with a lesbian woman and then make it clear that you aren’t interested in a relationship with a woman”. that’s pretty much self-evident, but I bring it up to point out that no, you didn’t actually answer my question)

-6

Anonymous #3 1w

well as i said before, many of the bi girls who off putting are the ones who THINK they're talking normally when they aren't. and even if i didnt answer ur question, i still gave you personal experience and insight that you wrote off because "how would you know, you date les4les now" which is still REALLY weird. maybe take some time to check some of the lesbophobia before trying to date one.

10

Anonymous #4 1w

nah, like I said, it’s perfectly chill that you’re les4les. zero sarcasm there, I think there’s plenty of highly legitimate reasons for that to be the case. you’ve been making a lot of blanket generalizations about bisexual women based on those personal experiences of yours—those are the biases I’m speaking to, that’s the reason your perspective isn’t of interest to me here. I’m just not that interested in discussing this subject with people who are already consciously biased against bisexuals

-3

Anonymous #3 1w

my blanket statements apply where they apply. they don't apply to all bi girls, just like OP and #2, who seem so sweet. but the ones who they do apply to seem to always get so upset. it's like "not all men". yes that's a blanket statement, but it's still relevant. yea my experience isn't every bisexual, but it's enough to make me(and a majority of lesbians) wary. so you ignoring everything ive said because you dislike my perspective is concerning when i've already acknowledged the nuance.

10

Anonymous #4 1w

I don’t need you to explain to me that OP is bi lol. if it helps, you can substitute the “elaborate” part of my reply with “what did you mean by that?”. I wasn’t asking for lesbian-specific input, I wanted elaboration from OP concerning what they meant by that part because I didn’t want to respond to the post presumptuously

-5

Anonymous #4 1w

like tell me you just want to be mad at lesbians without telling me you want to be mad at lesbians

14

Anonymous #4 1w

again, I specified that I wasn’t interested in your individual input on this subject due to your clearly-expressed biases against bi women. it’s earnestly kind of funny if you believe my aversion to biphobic bias constitutes lesbophobia

-6

Anonymous #3 1w

me saying "im wary because most of the bisexuals are like this" is the same as me being wary of men. no, it's not all men, no it's not all bisexuals. but being able to acknowledge there has been a disproportionate amount of bisexual girls who treat the lesbian(or even sapphic)community like this is important to acknowledge. it's not biphobia to say "most times this is how it goes" if you don't like how it typically goes.

11

Anonymous #4 1w

well no, the issue with people feeling the need to interject “not all men” when women vent about their experiences with men is that, on the axis of gender, men are women’s oppressors. bisexual women are not oppressing you; bisexual women are oppressed on the basis of both gender and sexuality. so those aren’t remotely comparable

-3

Anonymous #3 1w

Just so you know lesbians are the minority in the sapphic community

12

Anonymous #4 1w

generally, wariness of an oppressed group based on one’s own personal experiences with members of said group is what’s known as “bigotry”. and a lot of people are wary of bigoted perspectives

-3

Anonymous #3 1w

you say that as the majority in the sapphic community. i cannot oppress you. you sound ill informed and lesbophobic telling a lesbian her own experiences make her a bigot towards a majority.

7

Anonymous #1 1w

just so you know, minority status and systemic oppression aren’t the same thing, and I made no reference to the former

-4

Anonymous #3 1w

I have experienced systemic oppression at the hands of bisexual women, yes the ones who are in hetero relationships bc they do have privilege over lesbians

16

Anonymous #4 1w

I never claimed that lesbians are oppressing bisexual women—that would be totally deranged. you’re putting words in my mouth rather than engaging with what I’ve actually said. the point is that the “not all men” comparison is nonsensical because there’s no clear oppressor-oppressed dynamic here like there is between men & women.

-2

Anonymous #3 1w

there is a clear comparison. bisexuals can oppress lesbians. men can oppress women. it doesn't mean they always do. just that they have the power to under the right circumstances. stop crying biphobia when you won't even listen to first hand lesbian experiences. we are saying we've been oppressed by bisexuals before. NOT that you claimed the opposite was happening.

10

Anonymous #4 1w

if you seriously think it’s impossible for a lesbian to be bigoted towards bisexuals via making generalizations based in her own individual experiences then your understanding of how oppression works isn’t well-developed enough for me to even try to talk to you about these issues tbh

1

Anonymous #1 1w

you and #4 would both benefit from watching the “misogyny against bisexual women” video that was recently posted in this group. I’m gonna leave it at that and disengage because this hasn’t been a productive exchange in any direction

-2

Anonymous #5 1w

It’s pretty accurate. Literally every queer woman I have met irl besides 2 have been bi women

32

Anonymous #3 1w

and you can uppack the fact that bisexual women can be oppressors to lesbians sometimes. that bisexuals are the majority of the sapphic community. and lesbians saying how they've been treated is not a dig towards the entire community, just stating experiences.

8

Anonymous #1 1w

I said you’d benefit from watching the video, not that you’d benefit from making inaccurate dismissive replies on the post re: the video creator’s race and the subject of the video itself, then deleting them in embarrassment when corrected. try again

-2

it was either you or #4 since the comments were immediately after I mentioned the post here. and #4 doesn’t capitalize their “i”s, so it was you. but okay

-2

Anonymous #3 1w

…I didn’t comment on the post but whatevs. It wasn’t me, it was someone else, I’m sorry that you thought I did

5

Anonymous #3 1w

Btw literally any date would go badly if you talked about crazy exes during it. Why is it a problem when lesbians dont want to hear about exes but its not generally?

12

Anonymous #1 1w

right, and that’s why you immediately deleted your previous reply here claiming that it wasn’t you 😭 this is embarrassing, if you’re gonna be dishonest then you should at least not also be a coward about it

-2

Anonymous #3 1w

I deleted my response here bc I decided you weren’t worth it when I didn’t do something. You kept going so I put another reply up

8

Anonymous #1 1w

I must just be too old for this app at this point cause I s2g I feel like I’m trying to hold serious conversations on here with literal children

-5

Anonymous #3 1w

If it was me I swear on my life I would admit it

1

Anonymous #6 1w

no? it’s normal to talk about past relationships while getting to know a new potential partner. if hearing about exes makes you jealous then that’s something to work on—I know cishet men tend to whine about women doing that, but I was under the impression that most of us as queer people didn’t subscribe to the same petty ruleset

-2

Anonymous #3 1w

it's not petty to not want to hear only about exes on dates, wanting someone who's moved on, etc. and especially someone who isn't heteronormative.

22

Anonymous #1 1w

lmao. when you say I “kept going”, what you’re referring to was just me responding to your reply that you then deleted… hence why it just says “#3” instead of also including who I’m responding to

-4

Anonymous #4 1w

you keep moving the goalpost—no one ever said a damn thing about anyone “only” talking about exes and talking about your experience in prior relationships isn’t indicative that someone hasn’t “moved on”, it’s relevant information and there’s no rational reason to pointedly avoid the subject. but I recognize that petty possessive insecurity concerning a woman’s past relationships isn’t a behavior unique to men

-2

Anonymous #3 1w

Whos “you”. And no— it isnt relevant information on the FIRST DATE. Its distasteful on a straight date but especially on one where you are attempting to create a queer connection.

20

Anonymous #6 1w

it looks like you’re responding to what I said to #4, but scroll up, I replied to you directly a little earlier it’s not “distasteful” lmao, what’s your reasoning for claiming as much? sounds like an immature & arbitrary standard to me. people’s past relationships unavoidably inform how they approach future ones

-3

Anonymous #3 1w

And thats why you never get past the first date dude. 🤷‍♀️

3

Anonymous #6 1w

yeahhhh okay, you’re definitely highly immature if your response to having your position challenged is to make weird baseless assumptions about a stranger’s love life as some type of “gotcha” 😭 like are we in middle school or what

-2

Anonymous #3 1w

U are advocating for people to trauma dump on the first date. Thats weird. 🤷‍♀️

15

Anonymous #6 1w

no, I’m not doing that. what’s weird is that you’re dismissing the prospect of discussing any negative prior relationship experiences as merely “trauma dumping”. gain a little perspective and compassion moving forward please

-1

Anonymous #3 1w

This was such an interesting response because it masked itself as philosophical except as a bi girl I have no problem not talking about women to men or men to women unless it’s talking about what I learned from past experiences because I actually like the person in front of me and am not actively fantasizing about being with someone else.

14

Anonymous #7 1w

where on earth are you pulling the “fantasizing about being with someone else” part from? at no point has that been relevant to this conversation if you’re personally comfortable with being expected to compartmentalize your dating experiences and sexuality to that extent then you do you, but if someone else is That averse to hearing about your past experience with dating a different gender then idk why they’re pursuing a bi person in the first place

-3

Anonymous #3 1w

It’s not compartmentalizing it’s called moving on. If you cannot go on a date without flashing back to one of your ex’s- especially a first date. There is something there unresolved. Which again is not the same as “I learned this from a past relationship”. Call it fantasizing, wanderlust, grief, nostalgia, whatever it is. It’s not something neutral pulling you back and it is unresolved. Period.

14

Anonymous #7 1w

well no, the thing you said about “not talking to women about men and not talking to men about women” is by definition compartmentalizing. let’s make one thing perfectly clear—if you as a bisexual girl are dating a man and he insists that you not tell him about any of your experiences with dating women, full stop, that’s a red flag and what’s this dramatic talk about “flashing back”? again, bringing up your own interpersonal experiences in conversation isn’t “trauma dumping”

-2

Anonymous #7 1w

last I checked, people usually talk about their own lives and experiences on a first date as part of getting to know each other… being unable to deal with hearing about a potential partner’s ex, interpreting that as trauma-dumping or fantasizing or whatever rather than accepting it as part of normal conversation, is something to work on

-1

Anonymous #3 1w

again, you're being SO overly defensive. Yes, it's normal to talk about it to an extent. Though as we've been saying, alot of bi girls tend to take it too far and we get an ick. it's not possessive or dramatic to dislike being told how much better dating men is etc etc etc

6

Anonymous #3 1w

Well it’s a good thing I never mentioned a man telling me not to talk about my experiences with women. I communicated clearly that the thought never occurred to me to even be in that position because I like the person in front of me and don’t in fact think about how I felt experiencing other people when I’m with them. It’s not compartmentalizing - it’s being satiated and at peace with what’s in front of me.

6

Anonymous #3 1w

Yes and I acknowledged exactly “unless it’s talking about what I leaned.” You do you but maybe there’s a reason you don’t blend with other people when it comes to the mechanics of dating if you cannot internally seperate “what you learned and your experiences” from going on a play-by-play rehash of all of your ex’s on a first date. They are not the same thing and that’s all I’m saying.

8

Anonymous #7 1w

word-for-word what you said is that you “have no problem not talking about women to men”. so what position is it that never occurred to you—being in a relationship with a man and having reason to bring up something related to one of your past relationships with women? and like, do you seriously assume someone you’re on a date with isn’t content with you just because they mention an ex in some context? cause that level of insecurity definitely isn’t conducive to a healthy relationship

-2

Anonymous #7 1w

no one said anything about “going on a play-by-play rehash of all of your exes on a first date” in the first place? the post mentioned “talking about evil exes on the first date”. that’s what we’re talking about here. those are two different things, please try to respond to things that are actually being said

-1

Anonymous #3 1w

Unless it has something to do with who I am now as a person- yes precisely that’s the position that never occurred. And no I think if they keep bringing up an ex to a point that ik a play by play of their relationship I’m probably going to advise them that they may still need closure. I’m not possessive of the people around me so allowing them to feel what they feel while acknowledging they may not be in a place to move forward is perfectly healthy and human.

7

Anonymous #3 1w

And that comment was a subset of the question responding to when it would be appropriate to talk about your evil ex’s without going on a play-by-play rehash of them. If you’re going to pretend to ask a question out of curiosity please try to keep up with the parameters and implications of the question.

10

Anonymous #3 1w

Put bluntly maybe you go on a date with someone and they find the way that you relate to your ex’s to be a turn off because it’s not the way they relate to theirs and y’all are incompatible. Them not being attracted to you after that is not the same thing as insecurity. It’s boundaries that you don’t have to agree with but pretending that people not liking your personal dating choices is some deep seated insecurity of “why won’t they pick me” when they don’t want YOU is denial.

11

Anonymous #7 1w

??? hello, once again: no one said jack shit about a “play-by-play rehash” in the first place, all OP said was “talking about evil exes”. everything you’ve had to say to me thus far has been in response to your own exaggerated misinterpretation of those words

-1

Anonymous #4 1w

“yes, it’s normal to talk about it to an extent” exactly. end of conversation. nothing about “talking about evil exes on the first date” (the wording of the post we are replying to) necessarily implies “being told how much better dating men is”, you added that part in yourself, and I already stated repeatedly that it’s shitty when bi women treat lesbian women like they’re less valid as potential serious partners. you really didn’t have to keep talking yourself in circles this whole time

-2

Anonymous #3 1w

??? Hello, once again: you’ve been talking about how it’s ok to discuss negative experiences and people usually talking about their own lives and experiences. If you can’t reckon with someone asking what actually falls within those parameters that’s you. I’m talking about what you said not OP but you’re clearly unwilling to stand behind and interrogate your own words.

6

Anonymous #7 1w

“maybe they find the way that you relate to your exes to be a turn off” = perfectly fair and sensible reason to not go on another date! that’s an issue of compatibility, like you said “there’s no reason to talk about your ex on a first date” = overreaching, not true. this presents a personal preference as more or less an objective rule got it? we good now?

-1

Anonymous #7 1w

bruh are you serious? “talking about negative experiences” is still very much not the same as “giving someone a play-by-play on all of their exes”. please just make peace with the reality that you were responding to things that had not been said or even implied

0

Anonymous #3 1w

Bruh I didn’t say they were equal? The entire thread had been people trying to delineate to you that we do understand talking about your experiences but find it to be different from behavior that might signal other feelings. It was an example. I have no idea why you are so dense and unable to have any kind of reading comprehension

13

Anonymous #3 1w

And this I agree with because l literally never said there’s no reason to talk about your ex on a first date. I said I don’t feel a need to talk about my ex’s unless it has something to do with what I learned or who I am now but you’ve been acting like that’s totally unreasonable for 30+ messages with other people because you refuse to stop being so defensive. Everyone gets where you’re coming from, we’re saying that sometimes it passes talking about experience and comes across differently

12

Anonymous #3 1w

What’s funny is you are responding to a perceived generalization but you are the one generalizing everyone else’s words

10

Anonymous #7 1w

homie you’re the one who inaccurately presumed something I said meant I was implying it was normal to give a lengthy in-depth history of specific grievances with every ex. you didn’t frame it as an “example”, you repeatedly responded as if that was my argument while it was unrelated to any points I’ve raised in the future if you’re struggling to understand someone you can try to ask questions, rather than just yapping at length about your own exaggerated misinterpretation

-3

Anonymous #3 1w

I wasn’t struggling to understand you. You just don’t read things with discernment and that’s ok- you are in similar company in our generation 👍🏽

17

Anonymous #7 1w

holy shit lmfao. my entire reply thread was critiquing the notion that it’s bad to “talk about evil exes on the first date”… so if you agree that it’s fine for someone to talk about an ex on a first date, then you literally did not at any point comprehend what you were even arguing with me about. just arguing to argue. and then you brought into question *my* reading comprehension?? 😭 *I’m* too defensive?? real clown shit

-3

Anonymous #3 1w

No maybe you still don’t understand that I’ve delineated yes talk about your ex in X situation. Yes, if you talk about your ex’s in X other situations other people might not have that same boundary. So maybe you’re still trying to run circles around what I said instead of just accepting that there is a point where talking about your ex’s crosses a boundary…which you admitted two messages ago 🤣

2

Anonymous #3 1w

Anyway it’s been fun. No one is an absolute and OP is talking about people they perceive to cross the boundary of appropriate talking about ex’s on first dates. Others in the comments are acknowledging they experience that more with bisexual women. You want to be the victim in the situation and have it be absolute when it’s a relationship and inherently messy. I hope that was a good enough summary for you.

4

Anonymous #7 1w

judging by the downvotes, I’m not the only one who notices that you’re a victim of the literacy crisis. being incoherent is one thing, but I don’t have any patience for people who are incoherent And smug about it. my bad for not just blocking you half an hour ago

6