Anonymous #3 2w

#5 it’s ripe for abuse, any person could claim a trans person didn’t disclose their transness and in many cases it’d be their word against the trans person and take a wack at which side the totally fair legal system will take

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Anonymous #3 2w

#5 (the last one should’ve been #4) trans people are the only group of people this rule applies to and i find that incredibly disgusting. If for whatever reason a cis man mistook a twink for a woman he wouldn’t have any claim to damages for sleeping with them. It would be his mistake for not asking beforehand. If a person mistook an albino black person for a white person and they happened to be a virulent racist with a preference for white people, they couldn’t claim they were “deceived”

12

Anonymous #3 2w

I mean I agree with the legal stuff, but I don’t think “you won’t incur physical harm” should really be the bar here. At a certain point it’s about both making sure your partner’s comfortable and ensuring your safety as a trans person. If you go into a sexual encounter without letting them know you’re trans, then they find out mid sex, that could be legitimately dangerous for you. Especially if you’ve never talked to them about trans people before that.

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Anonymous #1 2w

I don't find that compelling either. Transphobic men can kill you regardless of whether or not you've slept with them, most trans people who die at the hands of transphobes didn't sleep with them beforehand. I think it's unlikely that this man that was just about to kill you because he slept with a trans woman would suddenly be oh so calm and rational if he knew you were trans beforehand instead. Why would i out myself to any person that hates trans ppl that much?

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Of course they can kill you without sleeping with you first, but if we’re in a scenario about to hook up then I am alone with this man in his apartment, that is a dangerous time to reveal you are a minority for the first time. Telling someone on or after a date, or over text/phone before you show up at their place, is much safer.

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Anonymous #1 2w

ok but you realize how that is a risk the trans person is assuming and not a form of harm incurred by the cis person, right? the point #3 is making is that it’s not unethical to not choose disclose whether or not someone is trans before entering a (sexual) relationship.

15

Anonymous #3 2w

To be clear: I’m talking about pre-op here. If I, as a trans man with a vagina, showed a cis man I was trans for the first time when I’m alone in his apartment, I would feel scared an unsafe at his reaction. If you’re post opp, I agree, there’s no obligation or need to tell anyone you’re trans. Your history is not their business unless you want it to be. But there’s many reasons it’s a good idea to be upfront and honest with sexual partners.

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Anonymous #1 2w

i don’t think there’s any significant difference. What makes transphobic men upset isn’t the fact that they slept with a trans woman it’s the fact that they were attracted to her to begin with and in their minds that makes them “gay”, that’s where their anger and rage comes from

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Anonymous #1 2w

yeah you’re talking about the practicalities and i’m more talking about the “is it ethical” bc cis people constantly want to treat us like we’re a disease they can catch and that’s what bothers me but we’re on the same page i think

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Anonymous #3 2w

It’s not about how mad they’ll be in the moment. They’ll probably be just as mad in public as they would be alone. It’s about physical safety of telling them in a public place vs a potentially violent bigot being in a private residence with you.

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Anonymous #4 2w

I do realize this yes, I’m not arguing about harm incurred by cis people. I’m saying “the cis person incurs no physical harm” is not the only factor as to whether or not you should share you’re trans before you decide to sleep with someone. In this particular convo I’m not talking about ethics, I’m talking about the trans person’s personal safety. But I can understand the confusion, I could’ve worded my reply better.

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Anonymous #3 2w

Oh okay yeah then we’re on the same page. Sorry I didn’t mean to make a thing out of nothing.

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Anonymous #1 2w

I just think for me practicalities are always a part of the conversation, but that’s partially because I take things very literally. Again sorry I didn’t mean to like. Make a thing of it.

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Anonymous #1 2w

Why are yall downvoting #1, I think for informed sexual consent people ought to know what they are getting into. Its also important to vet for your safety before being in a vulnerable position in someone elses house.

1

Anonymous #5 2w

i’m not saying informed consent is bad but for many cis people why does a trans person not disclosing their transness constitute a crime but then when those cis people actively lie about themselves, hide their past, etc it might be considered shitty, but nobody says they should be locked up for a crime.

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Anonymous #5 2w

Like for instance, I really prefer not to sleep with conservative men, but on hinge and other dating sites, any man that’s conservative lists himself as “moderate” or “apolitical” bc they know most women don’t want to sleep with conservative men. And yet there’s nobody clamoring about how these men are guilty of “rape by deception” despite it being far more common than trans people

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Anonymous #3 2w

there many woman who stay with men who say “yes one day we’ll get married” etc and string them along, sometimes for decades. is that a cool thing to do? no. does it make their past sexual encounters assault? no. there are many different scenarios where people do not have full complete knowledge of their sexual partner’s background—that doesn’t make those instances rape. *every* sexual encounter has risk. rape refers to something specific and watering it down is *actually* harmful.

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Anonymous #3 2w

I think there’s a stark difference between hiding your political views or your past and hiding your genitalia or sexual anatomy. Only one is directly tied to sexual intercourse. Ie, what if a cis woman has sex with a trans woman without knowing she’s trans and becomes accidentally pregnant as a result. What if someone who has trauma from being raped by a cis man has sex with a trans woman and then gets triggered.

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Anonymous #6 2w

Not to mention the fact that people have sexual preferences that don’t always align with their romantic attraction. Is it crazy just to say some people might not be attracted to certain sets of genitalia?

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Anonymous #6 2w

IF *specific* incidents of *actual* harm occurred then those could be evaluated on the basis of the *material facts*. not, “what if in my two contrived example scenarios a trans woman was a rapist?” you’re a transmisogynist. plain and simple.

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Anonymous #6 2w

#1 not all trans people are preop #2 if you have those preferences you should make them known instead of expecting trans people to guess your preferences #3 maybe sex to you is just genitalia and body parts but it’s in the eye of the beholder: to a demixsexual for instance ssx is just as much about personality as it is about bodies #4 why are your preferences more important than mine just bc they’re tied to physical characteristics? That’s an arbitrary line to draw

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Anonymous #6 2w

#5 how come it’s only trans people’s physical characteristics that matter? Is it also deception if a guys penis turns out to be smaller than he promised me? Is it deception if a veteran doesn’t disclose his genitalia was amputated after an IED accident? Is it deception if someone with a growth, rash, skin discoloration, etc doesn’t disclose it beforehand? In every other case people are considered shitty at worst but when it comes to trans people transphobes say it’s a crime.

10

Anonymous #3 2w

I wasn’t aware that there were people whose sexuality was just ‘large penises’ or ‘penises that aren’t discolored’ the same way that there are people whose sexuality revolves around attraction to penises specifically. The issue most people have is consent. Someone is consenting to have sex with someone they had previously thought had one set of genitalia but are now finding out has another. Consent has to be informed. If sex is not informed and nonconsensual then it is rape, by definition.

-1

Anonymous #6 2w

I completed disagree with the notion that trans people trick or lure people into sex. Because that’s the negative stereotype/notion that’s been associated with trans people for so long. But I also understand that sex should be informed and consensual. And I don’t think that’s possible if you get to the bedroom and suddenly find out you’re working with something else entirely.

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Anonymous #6 2w

Also, I’m demisexual and trans myself. Personality is more/equally important to me than genitalia. And I’d also consider it deception and maybe even rape if someone pretended to be someone they weren’t, just to get in my pants. Why? Because they deceived me sexually and I didn’t have informed consent.

7

Anonymous #6 2w

Except your specifically stipulating that it has to be informed about this one particular thing and all the rest of the things that people might have preferences about don’t matter you are targeting this system against trans people

9

Anonymous #6 2w

I highly doubt that considering you literally just compared being trans to “pretending to be someone you aren’t”

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Anonymous #3 2w

Literally where did I compare being trans to pretending to be someone you aren’t? And I’m not stipulating this one thing, transphobic lawmakers are. I also think that people should have informed consent about everything else. Personality, sexual history/sexual wellness, intentions, etc. For example, I think it’s undeniable that it’s rape to have sex with someone if you haven’t told them you have an STI first, or if you’re pretending to be interested in them romantically but really just want sex

15

Anonymous #6 2w

That’s just not possible unless you’re upfront about your preferences. People can have a wide range of deal breakers, and a wide range of preferences. The only way to know that you didn’t ever do say or think something that your partner might find to be a dealbreaker would be to tell them your entire life story from beginning to end.

2

Anonymous #3 2w

I was talking about personality there, in relation to my demisexuality. If someone pretended to be someone they weren’t in terms of personality. As in, they were an actual asshole but knew that I wouldn’t have sex with them unless I got to know them and form a bond with them and liked them as a person.

7

Anonymous #6 2w

or even far more complicated than that, there are things that if your partner knew them, they probably wouldn’t want to sleep with you anymore, but they don’t have it in their mind as an actual preference. Is it your responsibility to guess that preference that they don’t even know that they have. Sometimes you don’t know whether or not you’re attracted to something until you see it.

4

Anonymous #3 2w

it’s not targeting trans people to say that it should be disclosed before sex.

10

Anonymous #7 2w

if you care whether or not someone is trans, ask them. trans people aren’t obligated to disclose.

6

Anonymous #9 2w

Yeah ig that makes sense. I wish cis people would tell me if they were cis after I asked them out too 😭 I’m not like cis phobic or anything I just don’t want to date them and I don’t understand why they won’t tell me whether they’re cis or normal BEFOREHAND so they don’t waste my time

6