Anonymous #1 4w

like the Venn diagram has too many overlaps for them to be 3 separate things and also the borders are super fuzzy

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Anonymous #4 4w

People of all religions aren’t equal in Israel though

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Anonymous #3 4w

That’s why they said “should”

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Of course they are compatible— 2 state solution or confederacy

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“Zionist” just means some form of Jewish/Israeli national self determination. If there was 2 state solution with Israel’s current population and a Palestinian state it would be Zionist. Palestinians voting doesn’t make something not Zionist, Palestinians vote in Israel in every election

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Anonymous #1 4w

Also it’s not really a thing that you vote on. Like in a Palestinian state could Israelis vote to make the state not Palestinian? As long as each side has some form of protected self-determination, it’s compatible with Zionism

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Anonymous #1 4w

Literally just basic tyranny of the majority lol. Just vote to pass legislation that heavily targets the minority group.

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Anonymous #1 4w

While many people may like to claim that that is all Zionism is in practice Zionism also includes the removal of “obstacles” to Jewish return. That’s why we have the atrocities happening right now

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Anonymous #3 4w

Tyranny of the majority what a 2 state solution or confedercy is designed to prevent

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Anonymous #3 4w

And no that is Kahanism not Zionism. And Zionism is extremely broad— some Zionists may think settling the West Bank is an important part of Zionism while others think it should be under Palestinian control as part of a future state

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Anonymous #1 4w

Yeah sorry I misread but you know most Zionists don’t want a two state solution lmao. At least not the ones with power

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Anonymous #3 4w

Calling yourself a Zionist is about as vague as calling yourself an American patriot. It’s not a single program and it really doesn’t tell you anything specific about what someone’s policy opinions are. If you put two random Americans who call themselves patriots in a room together there’s a good chance they agree on literally nothing and end up in a screaming match accusing each other of destroying the country— the only things they have in common is they both care. It’s the same with Zionist

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Anonymous #1 4w

I’m talking about Zionism as described as a colonial project by its creator lmao not kahanism

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Anonymous #3 4w

Yeah the current government doesn’t but polls show Israelis are pretty open to it as long as it comes with security guarantees for them

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Anonymous #1 4w

If someone in America calls themself a patriot right now there’s a 90% chance they’re supporting this ridiculous administration. It’s pretty similar with Zionism I’d say.

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Anonymous #3 4w

I went to the No Kings protest in DC and there were thousands of people carrying American flags and calling themselves patriots in the streets. They (and I) felt that protesting this administration was a patriotic duty

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Anonymous #1 4w

In that context sure. In any other context calling yourself a patriot would get people thinking the opposite. Not because being a patriot is inherently bad, because of what it means right now to support what tot country is doing. Zionism has a similar situation

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Anonymous #3 4w

But we’re not talking about what people think Zionists think, we’re talking about what Zionists think

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Anonymous #1 4w

The fact of the matter is though that being patriotic in the US means you support what the US does. Same way Zionism does. Even if you disagree with current bad things the past years and years have all been bad too it’s just more visible now

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I think the idea is just to create some kind of political structure where Jews aren’t a minority subject to tyranny of the majority as we have been in the past. Right now the Jewish majority in Israel is really important to people because that’s the only way to avoid that situation and still have at least an opportunity for democracy and equal rights as well. That’s why many Zionists want a 2 state solution— one with a Jewish majority and one with a Palestinian majority

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Anonymous #3 4w

That’s your opinion though, other people can strongly disagree and say to them patriotism means believing in american ideals and what america could be and working for that. That doesn’t mean they support the country doing bad things, it just means they have a different understanding of the word than you do

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It definitely gets into semantics at that point and I think you’d get a different answer from every Zionist you ask lol. And I agree it’s inherently incompatible and that’s a major flaw of the 2 state solution— and the first person I ever had that discussion with and who explained to me why it’s inherently incompatible when I was a teenager was my rabbi who identifies as a proud Zionist

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Anonymous #1 4w

The creator of Zionism defined it as a colonial project. The same way the United States was created

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Anonymous #1 4w

Yeah but as a mandated minority, and a lot of Israeli politics regarding the West Bank and Gaza has been designed to make sure Palestinians are a significant minority

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Anonymous OP 4w

Again a totally fair critique, I’m not trying to promote any particular political solution here I just want people to understand Zionism can mean a whole lot of things

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Anonymous OP 4w

But also again you can call yourself a Zionist, support a two state solution, and oppose Israeli politics in Gaza and the West Bank. Or you can be a Zionist who wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank. Those are two very different positions that both fall under the umbrella of Zionism which is why I think it is too broad

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