Anonymous #4 1d

And, sure enough, since the founding of the State of Israel we have seen a decimation of Jewish communities around the world, where antisemites in countless countries have used Israel to build enough political will to ethnically cleanse Jews and/or collectively punish Jews for Israel’s actions And when Israel is very publicly and prominently committing ethnic cleansing campaigns of its own, and is pushing propaganda arguing that ethnic cleansing could be acceptable, that hurts us

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Anonymous #3 1d

Making a Jewish argument for ethnonationalism is suicidal, or at the very least a knife in the back of the diaspora

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Anonymous #1 1d

And Israel actively pushed propaganda that also helps other ethnonationalists around the world come to power and ramp up persecution against minority groups in their countries (including us, not that it should need to include us for us to oppose it)

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Anonymous #4 1d

Womp Womp, thank you for demonstrating. The diaspora is a symptom, not the goal. לשנה הבאה בירושלים

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Anonymous #4 1d

Crazy how you can post things with such little bases in truth. To say those practices started “Since the founding of Israel” or because of Israel is absurdly wrong. The state of Israel has never said anywhere that “ethnic cleansing could be acceptable”.

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Anonymous #6 1d

Are you anti-colonialist or not?

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Anonymous #5 1d

The state of Israel was founded on an ethnic cleansing of most of the Palestinians form what are now its borders, when it defends that it is defending ethnic cleansing A big part of why the Gaza Strip has had such high population density is because a lot of them are refugees from what is now Israel (just like much of the Palestinian diaspora is)

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Anonymous #5 1d

And I didn’t say anything about the practiced having “started” since the founding of Israel, but an enormous amount of it happened in the immediate aftermath of the founding of Israel in places it had not been happening previously; most of the Sephardi/Mizrahi diaspora since then have been refugees from that

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Anonymous #4 1d

The state was Israel was founded with the below appeal, which is way Israel is 20% Arab/Muslim citizens who continue to have full equal rights. "WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions."

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Anonymous #5 1d

The area that is now Israel was majority Arab at the time of the initial partition approval by the UN, the ethnic cleansing that the Palestinians call “Al-Nakba” brought the number down considerably, creating the Jewish majority we’d see after that, and Israeli policy has been consistently oriented to maintaining a sizable Jewish majority among citizens, even while annexing new Arab-majority territories, to ensure that Arabs would not be able to form a significant part of the electorate

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Anonymous #4 1d

The main reason Gaza has such a high population is because the NGOs that should be responsible for helping them are instead paid per person for however long we keep them there. Effectively the same incentive structure that keeps private prison populations high in the US. Palestinians and Israelis are both losers in the scheme that makes UNRA and Hamas leaders billionaires.

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Anonymous #5 1d

Also Israel is 21% Arab and 18% Muslim, let’s not conflate Muslims and Arabs there are many Christian and Druze Arabs in Israel as well

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Anonymous #5 1d

And while Arab citizens may have had de jure equal rights prior to more recent pushed like the Nation State Law, in practice that is not the case. If you’re familiar with the “exclusionary covenants” that were a big part of segregation in US history, a huge portion of Israel’s land is administered via similar practices by groups like the JNF, which will not lease or sell to Arabs in a very similar model to how white home owners would not lease or sell to Black Americans during Jim Crow

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Anonymous #5 1d

Gaza has had a high population since before there was a Hamas and NGOs don’t really get to determine how many people live in a place… I have friends with family in Gaza, they did not live in Gaza before 1948

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Anonymous #4 1d

And what happens to Palestinian land owners that sell to Jews? And breaking news: The Jewish National Fund exists to help Jews. The Arab National Fund was a thing once too

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Anonymous #3 1d

The Arab National Fund functions totally differently it doesn’t enforce segregation and is based out of Kuwait If Israel wanted to have equality they would need to ban racial/ethnic/religious discrimination in leases and selling land just like we had to do in the US

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Anonymous #4 1d

Actually no because Israel isn’t the US. Why fixate on land leasing by a nonprofit org funded by Jews when theres a Palestinian law with capital punishment for selling to a Jew?

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Anonymous #4 1d

Extend your claim to anything else. There are scholarships in the US that are only for people of color or native Americans. Would you say the US doesn’t want equality because they haven’t gotten rid of them yet? Many people in the US would agree, DEI preaches inequality. If that’s your opinion, sure. But since when do people herald the US as the gold standard of practical equality? I thought the narrative is we have systemic racism

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Anonymous #3 1d

We have not achieved redemption, and bombing Palestinas and burning olive trees in the Eretz Yisrael habe not exactly brought us closer to that goal…

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Anonymous #3 1d

Scholarships are perfectly fine Land that will only be sold to people of a certain ethnic or religious group are not The issue is not that the JNF exists, the issue is it racially discriminating against Palestinians and other Arabs

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Anonymous #3 1d

Racial discrimination is wrong be it in the US or not Palestinians do not have a state, and that law exists in the face of an active occupation by terrorist settlers who lynch Palestinians, there is no equivalency here, if they did have a state I would regard such policies very differently

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Anonymous #3 1d

And the US has systemic racism, but it is better than it used to be, and Israel is very much like the US was in a previous era

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Anonymous #4 1d

Oh wow Mr. Frum Satmar over here. Every Jewish belief points to גוג ומגוג. So whether you think we ought to be redeemed first or it’s a precursor to being redeemed, bombing and war is supposed to happen. It’s just a matter of when. If you want to say we have no place as Jews in Israel then sure! Go on believing that! But it’s not a Jewish belief

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Anonymous #4 1d

“That law exists in the face of an active occupation” Brother, why do you think the JNF was established??

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Anonymous #3 1d

We are supposed to return to the holy land by an act of HaShem, not bombing and war And I didn’t say nor suggest that we have no place as Jews in Eretz Yisrael, of course we do, but we have no place bombing and ethnically cleansing other people from it. Jews coexisted mostly with Samaritans, Druze, Muslims and Christian’s in the holy land for as long as those religions have existed, we can once again

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Anonymous #3 1d

Are you arguing the state of Israel is binder occupation right now?

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Anonymous #4 1d

Coexisted is a stretch. We existed. A very simple test question for you is: Will the 3rd Temple be rebuilt?

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Anonymous #4 1d

Sigh. Dude. It was. By the British. For a long time. You forget?

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Anonymous #3 1d

Only after the coming of the Messiah And coexistence is not a stretch, well at least not with the Muslim population, at the time of early Zionist immigration the local Jewish communities had good relations with their Muslim neighbors, although relations with Christians were more strained as they’d started increasingly importing antisemitic ideas from Europe Have you read the newspapers and other publications of the Old Yishuv communities from that time? I’d recommend it, they’re interesting

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Anonymous #3 1d

I asked if you’re arguing Israel is under occupation *right now*, not if it was in the past. If you want to justify the JNF’s actions during the British Mandate that’s a separate argument, I’m talking about right now in Israel

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Anonymous #4 1d

גוג ומגוג, man. The Messiah will come and then it’ll be “racist and adverse to peace” to bulldoze Al Aqsa to rebuild it? There will always be conflict, at some point self preservation has to come before preserving others

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Anonymous #3 1d

This is not self preservation, it’s taking the tactics that have been used against innocent Jews and turning them on others

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Anonymous #4 1d

I disagree. You can hi to the Bundists for me, but I am going to keep my eggs in the basket of the Jewish State

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Anonymous #3 1d

As someone whose family left our ancestral country in the backlash to Israel’s actions in the 1967 war, Israel has done the opposite of help keep us safe

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Anonymous #3 1d

You’re welcome to disagree with me, but as far as I’m concerned if a group of Jewish people want to use the same policies if subjugation and ethnic cleansing that were used against us then they are no better than our oppressors

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Anonymous #4 1d

Your family felt the need to flee their home country due to being blamed, solely for being Jews, for the actions of other Jews, and somehow it’s the Jews’ fault for your home country’s antisemitism?

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Anonymous #3 1d

I am not talking about “blame” here, but simple cause and effect, the creation of Israel lead to many Jews around the world being put in less safe situstions, thus it did not make us more safe The fault of the antisemitism is on the antisemites, but that antisemitism was significantly less before the founding of Israel, so I find it hard to argue that the founding had been good for us given what happened as a result And Israeli propaganda has only encouraged this conflation

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Anonymous #4 1d

😐 “Antisemitism was significantly less before the founding of Israel” Oh brother

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Anonymous #3 1d

Nice try quoting what I said out of context and totally misrepresenting it. I said “*that* antisemitism was significantly less before the founding of Israel” as in specifically the antisemitism in the places I was referring to before in the conversation, i explicitly did not say that about antisemitism writ large Like you can argue it if you’d like but in nearly every Arab country that had a significant Jewish population antisemitism was considerably less prior to the founding of Israel

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Anonymous #4 1d

Living as dhimmi did not make us safer. If you believe Jewish response to oppression makes us less safe, why don’t you hold the same opinion of Palestinians? You think Arabs are second class citizens in Israel ? Okay, go tell them to be okay with it because Palestinian resistance actually makes them less safe. This is suicidal “empathy.” Everyone else is allowed to kill us because it’s US JEWS that’s MAKING them do it. It’s not their fault, nono couldn’t be. Such angels.

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Anonymous #3 1d

You’re arguing against a complete strawman & the dhimmi system ended well before the founding of Israel I said Israel is making us less safe, I explicitly said that antisemites are responsible for their own antisemitism. If someone wants to argue Israel is making Jews safe they need to contend with the instances where it has not only failed to but had the opposite effect. I’m not talking about moral blame, but tactical assessment, and as a tactic for Jewish safety Israel has largely failed

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Anonymous #3 1d

Yes

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