Anonymous #1 5w

I disagree

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Anonymous #3 5w

Same thing in the Rwandan genocide but I don’t see that comparison.

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Anonymous #3 5w

This is what I’m getting at with my comment. The MAGA party has spent a couple decades cooking using immigrants (specifically latine immigrants) (and also most other marginalized groups but mostly the immigrants) as a scapegoat. They attempted a coup, they’re attempting to change the constitution to keep Trump and give him more authoritarian power, they’re actively kidnapping people and deporting them or putting them in detention centers without trial. Like it’s at the point where there def

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Anonymous #1 5w

Are similarities and it’s not inaccurate or minimizing what actually happened in the holocaust to say so.

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Anonymous #1 5w

It is minimizing. Stop universalizing antisemitism. Stop using Jewish trauma as a measuring tool while not even including Jews in the conversation. A lot of these things are inaccurate too like claiming there weren’t camps in Germany when there was or saying it started with deportations when it didn’t. You can legitimize trump’s anti-Hispanic racism without making Holocaust comparisons

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Anonymous OP 5w

I’m not claiming it’s the same it absolutely is not. but when I read the experiences of the holocaust from diary entries and stuff that’s put in museums or looking at the warning signs that existed in nazi germany, it is similar to today. It’s definitely not the same, like MAGA is way messier than the nazis about who they’re targeting, but there are detention centers that people are being kidnapped and taken to and being held in for indefinite periods of time. And trumps attempts to install

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Anonymous #1 5w

But it’s not the same. The full picture matters. Stop cherry picking certain details when that could also apply to other regimes instead of constantly invoking the Holocaust

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Anonymous OP 5w

Himself as an authoritarian dictator look a lot like Hitler’s. This is less of a “oh it’s as bad as the holocaust” and more of a “I think there are enough nazis in this administration taking direct influence from nazis that you can predict what they’re gonna do by studying Nazi germany”

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Anonymous #1 5w

Almost like it’s because it’s different and comparing the two minimizes the uniqueness of the atrocity of the holocaust

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Anonymous #2 5w

I’m not going to compare the atrocity of the holocaust to anything else. Every atrocity is different and unique and deserves to be studied on its own. However, studying past atrocities can help us predict and prevent future atrocities. The holocaust was the first industrialized genocide and the Nazis ideology is still popular in the US today. It seems that the Trump administration might attempt an industrial scale genocide of their own, and by their actions, it seems they may be heavily inspired

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Anonymous #2 5w

By the holocaust. I’m not saying what’s happening now is the same. Im saying that it’s worth studying what happened in Nazi germany and the holocaust to better understand what is happening now and what we can possibly do to prevent it.

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Anonymous #1 5w

You can study the Holocaust without comparing it to everything else heinous. You can study regimes and genocide without invoking the Holocaust. Even if you were to make Holocaust comparisons, you can at least include Jews in the conversation.

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Anonymous #1 5w

It doesn’t get to compare to the holocaust until the mass killings hit Seven Figures. Sorry to make a rule on this

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Anonymous #3 5w

Genocide doesn’t focus on numbers, it focuses on intent…

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Anonymous OP 5w

You’re completely right. And when I do study the holocaust, I do not generally compare it to other regimes and genocide (with the exception of maybe past pogroms of Jews motivated by similar ideologies). When I am researching the actions of the Trump regime and actions of ICE today, however, I use my knowledge of Nazi Germany and the Holocaust to better understand what is currently happening and what might happen next. And when I am having that conversation outside of Jewish spaces (rare),

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Anonymous OP 5w

I do talk about Jews and how Jews were treated in the Holocaust because it is very important context that I do not assume all goys have.

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Anonymous #1 5w

I feel like many people don’t mention Jews. They say “camps” but not how Jews were put there. They’ll say “deportations” but not that it was Jews abducted. They’ll say “smear campaign” but not that it was an antisemitic campaign. The list goes on. They invoke certain components to the Holocaust without showing the full picture, not presenting the facts, and not including Jews. Some lies are placed to fit their comparative narrative.

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Anonymous OP 5w

I agree. Most of the time holocaust comparisons are invoked carelessly and in a way that does minimize the Holocaust. That is why I usually don’t have that conversation when I am the only Jew in the room or when I think the people around me cannot handle that comparison respectfully. But that doesn’t mean it cannot or should not be done respectfully.

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Anonymous #4 4w

Not the same

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Anonymous OP 4w

You’re not the arbiter of truth. They’re using the Nazi playbook, idk what to tell you…

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Anonymous #4 4w

Neither are you. But it’s insensitive to the Jewish community to use Holocaust comparisons left and right. You can warn of a genocide without invoking the Holocaust

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Anonymous #4 4w

You can highlight the political science research analyzing genocidal regimes without drawing the Holocaust. There’s also been other genocidal regimes… like in Sudan, Myanmar, China, Iraq, Ethiopia, etc.

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Anonymous OP 4w

Compared to those countries the nazi’s committed white collar mass murder thats why there’s similarities it’s starting with the culture shift

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Anonymous #3 4w

White collar?

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Anonymous OP 4w

You will be comparing it to the holocaust once they are done targeting LGBTQ, immigrants, Muslims, and they move onto Jews. But when we noticed the similarities to Nazi Germany we should stop it before it gets to that point. Instead of whining about how it “minimizes” the holocaust or whatever

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Anonymous #5 4w

Bc it’s different when both instances affected Jews. When your instances do not. Antisemitism is also drastically on the rise in the US. So it’s not a move onto when it’s already happening. The Holocaust was about antisemitism, these comparisons are not about antisemitism. Stop telling Jews we’re whining about our experiences. Would you accuse lgbt of whining about homophobia?

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Anonymous OP 4w

I just don’t understand why it’s so bad to draw parallels to what happened in Nazi Germany. What happened to Nazi Germany was not just about antisemitism either. Other groups are affected, including groups that are currently being affected in the United States like the LGBTQ. That’s why it’s similar. This type of shit always ends with the Jews being harmed. That’s why we need to stop it before it gets to that point

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Anonymous #5 4w

But it’s already gotten there. The US is already increasingly antisemitic. It’s not necessary to make Holocaust comparisons. It is minimizing and universalizes antisemitism. Should I compare post 9/11 racism against Muslims to all other groups even tho it directly pertains to Muslims? No. Should I tell other groups they don’t belong here or speak English even though that directly pertains to anti-immigrant prejudice? No. Should I compare anti-Hispanic racism to the Rwandan genocide? No.

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Anonymous OP 4w

But the holocaust wasn’t exclusively antisemitic. It was white supremacist, which is what the United States is now. Run by white supremacy, just like Nazi Germany was 🤦‍♀️

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Anonymous #5 4w

Jews were the primary group affected by the Holocaust. It’s wildly inappropriate to remove Jews from the conversation and generalize it to racism in general.

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Anonymous OP 4w

How did I remove Jews from the conversation if we are also the primary victims of white supremacy

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Anonymous #5 4w

With your logic should I compare current events to other genocidal regimes? Compare current events to the genocide in Syria against Druze, Uyghurs genocide in China, Tutsi genocide in Rwanda? They’re both genocides… but the unique details make them distinct.

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Anonymous OP 4w

Yes, I think you should. Genocidal regimes have a lot in common, and a lot of the the time it’s caused by white supremacy. If we ignore these signs in fear of “minimizing the holocaust” (which I don’t understand how drawing parallels to other genocidal regimes minimizes that) genocides are going to keep happening. If we know those signs, we can stop it before it gets to the point where it they are constructing death processing plants like Nazi germany did

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Anonymous OP 4w

you won’t compare it to the holocaust until we are in fucking cattle cars getting shipped to concentration camps. At that point it’s too fucking late

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Anonymous #5 4w

I’m saying you don’t need to compare every regime to Nazi Germany. I’m saying you don’t need to use Jewish trauma as a continuous parallel without even including Jews in the conversation.

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Anonymous OP 4w

That’s a strawman. I didn’t compare every single regime to Nazi Germany. The American trump regime has some scary parallels Nazi Germany and that’s just a fact. And drawing those parallels is what makes people realize what is actually happening and what it could turn into. That’s putting a stop to it before it gets to the point that the holocaust did

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Anonymous OP 4w

Also I never use Jewish trauma as a continuous parallel without including Jews in the conversation. Any conversation about white supremacy, Jews are included in point blank period

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Anonymous #5 4w

Jews are barely ever included in the conversation. Actually idk any instance from goyim including Jews in their parallels. Or speaking over Jews when Jews attempt to join

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Anonymous OP 4w

You keep moving the goalposts. My point is that drawing parallels between the Trump regime and Nazi Germany will cause people to wake up and realize that this could get really bad if we don’t do anything to stop it

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Anonymous OP 4w

You realize that 45% of the victims of the holocaust were non-Jews

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Anonymous #6 4w

You realize their main targets were Jews right

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Anonymous OP 4w

Of the holocaust, yes, however to ignore the 5 million non Jews is just as bad as denial, of Germanys plan for ethnic clensing, Jews were actually not the main target, it was Slavic peoples

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Anonymous OP 4w

Also why are you calling gentiles goyim lol

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Anonymous #6 4w

You do realize gentile and goyim means the same exact thing. The best term would be Non-Jewish if you’re discussing Jews vs people who aren’t Jews.

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Anonymous #6 4w

Stop you’re minimizing the holocaust by saying that according to OP

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Anonymous #5 4w

No way you’re that obnoxious. Grow up

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Anonymous #4 4w

Yeah it means nations but it has gotten an offensive connotation to non-Jews

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Anonymous #6 4w

We really have to educate people about what goyim means, it’s used ironically by White Supremacists to try and create hatred towards us. The answer isn’t to not use it, but to not use it derogatorily.

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Anonymous OP 4w

To say he’s being obnoxious for recognizing that the holocaust effected an almost equal number of non-jews is next level delusion

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Anonymous #6 4w

Yeah that’s fucking nuts to me, it’s obvious this person doesn’t see other holocaust victims as equals and it’s gross

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Anonymous #6 4w

I’m saying their comments towards me were obnoxious. Not that acknowledging goyim in the Holocaust was obnoxious.

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Anonymous #4 4w

Yes, I agree, I just think non-Jew is a better term

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Anonymous #5 4w

Didn’t say I don’t view them as equal. I’m just saying Jews were the primary targets.

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Anonymous OP 4w

I never accused you of saying that, however Jews were not the primary targets of Germanys overall plan of ethnic clensing, Slavic peoples were

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Anonymous #6 4w

So what’s ur point? Jews shouldn’t center themselves on Holocaust discussion? Jews shouldn’t have an influential say in the matter? That people can make any comparison and it isn’t offensive to Jews at all? Bc that’s delusional

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Anonymous OP 4w

You obviously do considering I said that the holocaust was driven by white supremacy and you threw a fit saying I “removed Jews from the conversation” bc I said white supremacy instead of just antisemitism

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Anonymous #6 4w

No jews were def the primary target of Germany’s ethnic cleansing idk where you got your holocaust information from but Jews were definitely the primary target. Next was Romani and after that Slavs and then all the other minority groups Nazis discriminated against.

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Anonymous #5 4w

Threw a fit… girl relax. I just said Jews and antisemitism should be included in the description.

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Anonymous #6 4w

And The 5 million number refers to Romani not Slavic people generally. Something which should absolutely be recognized. Still though, the holocaust primarily targeted Jews as did the Nuremberg laws and propaganda in Nazi germany and ghetto neighborhoods.

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I don’t know enough about this to address it and Wikipedia does not have a cited source for the number 19 million so I don’t know where to start tonight but this post is about the holocaust and the primary target of the Holocaust was undeniably the Jews and the motivation of the Holocaust was undeniably antisemitism the final solution specifically targeted the Jews. The Nazis did other mass killings that were not limited to the Holocaust but this thread is about the Holocaust.

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Ok so I did go ahead and look this up anyway and I’m not finding any sources that say 19 million other than Quora. I found an 11 million and a 27 million but were really not sure so we just say millions. Also everything that I’ve found that’s not quora or Reddit says that it’s not included in ethnic cleansing because those deaths are attributed to barbaric war strategies not a planned genocide

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And I don’t mean to be dismissive of Slavic deaths with that like it’s still horrible and should be memorialized but that doesn’t make this the same as the Holocaust. Like to put it into perspective there were 9.5 million Jews in Europe pre-Holocaust, 2/3 were killed. Slavs are 50% of Europe still and while I can’t find a good estimate for population everything I’ve found is in the 100s of millions. Slavs weren’t killed because of a concentrated effort to kill all Slavs, they were killed because

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The Nazis were imperialist and barbaric in their war efforts. There were propaganda efforts and discrimination against Slavs but they weren’t included in the final solution or anything they were like sieged in the middle of winter and taken as POW and bombed and all that. And that doesn’t make it better it is also horrible. It is also potentially comparable to modern day US considering Venezuela, but please do not use this to minimize the holocaust.

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Anonymous OP 4w

I mean of course people aren’t making the comparison to the Rwandan genocide? First off it is just a lot less comparable than the lead up to the Holocaust is but, like, more to the point: how many people do you know who have even close to enough knowledge about the Rwandan genocide to compare it to anything?

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Anonymous OP 4w

Yes there have been other genocidal regimes, but which one do you think would be a better comparison than the Nazi regime in the lead up to the Holocaust and why?

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Anonymous OP 4w

Jews, Roma, and Sinti were the main targets, and generally when we make virtually any parallel to a situation in any other country we are talking about the actions involved and not every single group involved being the same, we’re making an analogy here

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The Holocaust was not just Nazi expansion, it was a genocide of Jews, Roma, and Sinti and the main targets were Jews, Roma, and Sinti. Did the Nazis kill a lot of Slavic people? Of course, they were the majority in the territory the Nazis were trying to colonize There are a lot more Slavic people than Jewish people ana lot of the armies they were fighting against were heavily composed of them so of course they were killing more Slavic people in total, but Slavs were not the main *target*

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