ppl say suicide is selfish till their bipolar/schizophrenic family member asks them for a place to stay or for support beyond “man that sucks”

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Anonymous #5 4w

It's not trolling, I just genuinely think there are so many people who were in a tough spot and could've made it out if they didn't have people in their ear telling them suicide was a fair and reasonable and respectable choice and they don't have to consider the impact it will have on the people around them. What other thing can you think of where it's taboo to say people should think about the impact of their actions and avoid making choices that cause more harm than good?

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I am keeping my argument straight. Suicide is selfish. You telling people it's not selfish is definitely not making suicide any harder for people to do.

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If they're already dead, you can't make their life better

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Making suicide hard is the fast and first solution, anything else is idealistic when dealing with people who can just pay for therapy and pay for medicine. If making suicide hard is what keeps you here until we can make life better, then so be it

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Anonymous OP 4w

*can't just pay

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Also a radical individual who's alive is better than suicidal individual who's dead

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I can't help a dead man.

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And no I would not explicitly say "you are selfish" to someone who just tried to kill their self because I'm not a dick but I would (and have) 100% make very clear what the impact of them succeeding would have been on myself, on their family, on their friends, on their classmates, on their coworkers, on their pets, etc because a lot of times what people need to hear is that they matter to people and it would matter to people if they were gone

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Anonymous #8 4w

I don't even know her and I think it's very weird and disrespectful to post a photo of a supposedly dead person as a gotcha. Anyways no because I'm not a dickhead and I know how to communicate my thoughts with people without outright insulting them. It's called being an adult

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You can't do anything with somebody who's already dead, the point isn't to help them. It's to call it what it is. Some people need to hear it for what it is. Knowing that you will leave this earth in the worse state of your life and you will also leave everyone behind worse of than they were before might actually be the thing some ppl need to hear rather than having somebody validate their contemplation to just end it. Somebody's asking for a sign to stay, maybe this post is it

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I'm not therapist and I'm not a social worker and I'm not a millionaire. I can't wave a magic wand to fix somebody's problems and there's not always a clear way out for everybody and it's patronizing to act like there is. What I can say is nobody benefits from you killing yourself, not even you because your last memory will be suffering and it will not have ever gotten better

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Not everybody is internally motivated, some people are really only moved by external considerations

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You can't externally motivate someone out of mental illness or poverty or some condition out of their control. Suicide is in your control so you can give them reasons for why they shouldn't do it even if everything right now seems like it sucks. The most straightforward reason that every person on this earth has is that they exist and as a result they have an impact on people's lives.

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Anonymous OP 4w

I think it really differs from situation to situation and putting blame or shame on someone who is already going through a lot is just going to make them more isolated, you have this fallacy that you can just “motivate” someone out of mental illness and act as if you show them empathy that you will embolden them to do it, that doesn’t make sense

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Anonymous #5 4w

I literally never said I could motivate someone out of mental illness. I actually said "you can't externally motivate someone out of mental illness". You are literally claiming that I said the opposite of what i said. It's in writing.

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I'm still confused on the argument, they're replying to me claiming that an argument I never made is flawed

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He can't be referring to both of us if he's claiming one person said something

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Anonymous #9 4w

I think you're missing the point that there are more people in your life than just your family

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Anonymous OP 4w

Yeah so what if none of them care about you. You’re suffering and no one cares like at all. You’ve never been there it seems

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Anonymous #9 4w

It’s the same to those people as it is someone starving in another country that’s how it feels

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Anonymous #9 4w

Feeling like no one cares about you isn't the same as no one caring about you.

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Anonymous #9 4w

Idek what you're trying to say here

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Anonymous #9 4w

And I actually have been there. I still do think about the girl who killed herself who I had maybe 5 conversations with in the 5 years I went to school with her and I remember the whole school being in mourning for this girl for weeks. I literally was at her funeral thinking "none of these people will be at my funeral, they don't care about me" and then immediately realized that I barely knew this girl and I still cried for her. People feel it when you're gone even if you think they won't

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Anonymous OP 4w

so actually it is a dead person, someone who actually got bullied into taking their own life.

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Anonymous #8 4w

Yeah, still weird and disrespectful of you

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Anonymous OP 4w

You didn’t feel it enough for her to feel seen and not suffering. Your selfish for caring about your reaction towards her suffering. Who gives a fuck if you cried that’s nothing compared to the girl suffering towards a point of death

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Anonymous OP 4w

Sometimes it is tho if people cared enough they’d make you feel cared for

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Anonymous #9 4w

You're missing the point? The point isn't me lol the point is I barely even knew her and I was impacted so think about the people actually close to her. And fill what the first sentence means lol I'm not a mind reader and I wasn't a close friend, she wasn't trauma dumping to me that doesn't mean that I don't care that she's gone. She was 15 and now she's dead and you're trying to argue that people didn't care about her, are you well?

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Anonymous #9 4w

And she was very well loved and cared for like great support group very involved in church and at school just like ray of sunshine in the halls homecoming queen twice as a underclass man. Everyone knew and loved her. So many people came to the funeral that they couldn't close the church doors

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Anonymous OP 4w

Yeah sometimes people don’t have others they’re close too. If anyone who’s “close” to her made her feel safe it wouldn’t have happened and they would of cared enough to help.

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Anonymous #9 4w

Yeah people didn’t care about her enough to do something about her suffering.

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Anonymous #9 4w

People did everything they could. If that's what you needed to believe to justify your choice to kys when you were feeling that way then alright I guess but just because you feel something doesn't make it the truth

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Anonymous #9 4w

This is really weird to suggest it's your fault if your mentally ill friend or family member kills themself

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Anonymous OP 4w

Yeah just cause people surrounded her doesn’t mean she felt seen by anyone. They didn’t help her enough dude

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Anonymous #9 4w

You can't take away someone's mental illness lol she was in therapy and on medication and had a really strong friend group

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Anonymous OP 4w

It is your responsibility if you care about someone to help save them, yes. And in some cases it can be their fault, say abuse or neglect from family, yes they are part of the problem

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Anonymous #9 4w

Goes back to my point of how just telling someone people care about them isn't enough and sometimes what somebody really needs to hear is what the impact will be

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Anonymous OP 4w

Not strong enough that’s what you’re saying as an outsider things obviously weren’t as they appeared

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Anonymous OP 4w

No that’s just guilt tripping them. Maybe help them heal more than just taking the burden off of you if they die

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Anonymous #9 4w

OP I honestly just think you aren’t intelligent enough to understand how these things work

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Anonymous #9 4w

Things were, her closest friends knew what was going on and were at her house and with her all the time. She left school in the middle of the day during a her free period to do it because it was the only time she wasn't with people

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Anonymous #9 4w

I think you're actually just an idiot and weird

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Anonymous OP 4w

No

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Anonymous OP 4w

Her teachers didn’t care enough to pay attention to that odd behavior? Community mistake

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Anonymous #9 4w

She didn't have a class to be in bc it was a free period and she went out of one of the back doors so there wasn't like a front desk check out. People noticed she was gone when she didn't come back after the free period

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Anonymous #9 4w

Also it’s selfish for you to want her to stick around and suffer just so you don’t feel bad and can enjoy her company. The same would be true if you forced your pet to stick around even if they were in agonizing pain, you either get them help by any means necessary or don’t be surprised when they give up on life and die. Selfish of you to think other peoples feelings about her are more important than her own feelings about herself

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Anonymous OP 4w

People saw her leave then huh

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Anonymous #9 4w

I just said no one saw her leave, can you read?

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Anonymous #9 4w

It's not expecting her to stick around for me idk how many times I have to say that

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Anonymous OP 4w

You just said she went out the back door? How did you get that information?? Someone must have seen her

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Anonymous #9 4w

She left the building and didn't go out through the front door...

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Anonymous OP 4w

Yeah except that’s how it is no matter how you want it to be that’s what the dynamic is

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Anonymous #9 4w

What

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Anonymous OP 4w

It is her being around that you want. Read

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Anonymous #9 4w

And that’s by default

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Anonymous #9 4w

What you’re saying op is “Aw poor people who someone they loved died I feel so bad for them that’s awful” and also “she’s so selfish look at these people cry and mourn over her”. Meanwhile she’s suffering to the point of no longer wanting to live

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Anonymous #9 4w

You can't say read after saying a completely new sentence that you didn't say before. And it's not her being around that I want, a 15 year old died and "everyone loves you" wasn't enough to keep her here. Maybe something a little more harsh would've worked. Different people need different approaches and sometimes being too fluffy makes it sound like bullshit

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Anonymous OP 4w

Telling her she’s selfish if she kills herself? Yeah that’ll work 😑

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Anonymous #9 4w

A lot of people suffer to the point of not wanting to live, not everybody kills themselves though

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Anonymous #9 4w

It might've!

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Anonymous OP 4w

Yeah it’s different though you obviously don’t know but it’s wayyy different

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Anonymous OP 4w

And that’s where you’re wrong! When you’re in that state you know your suffering outweighs people’s dispute over your death

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Anonymous #9 4w

I literally was suicidal at the same time as her

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Anonymous OP 4w

And OP genuinely I thought I totally understood suicidal people when I was low but then I actually was suicidal and realized it’s not what you think it is at all it’s so much worse I can’t even explain to you

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Anonymous #9 4w

It’s like your brain is radiating pain emotional and physical it feels like a void in your body and something you can’t control no matter how much you want to. Maybe educate yourself by listening to how people describe a suicidal state and it might help you. This is the disconnect here

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Anonymous OP 4w

Like actually or just my life sucks nothings worth it and I want to die. Cause I thought I was to until I actually was

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Anonymous #9 4w

You're lecturing me on being suicidal when I just said multiple times that I was also suicidal. I literally just didn't kill myself because even though I was beefing with my mom, she's mentally unstable too and would've killed herself, and who knows who else would've tried to kill their self. One of my sisters has been institutionalized one of my brothers is one of my brothers is bipolar and another just attempted. So yeah thinking of ppl around me actually did help me not kms

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Anonymous #9 4w

It’s so scary it’s like you can’t control yourself.

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Anonymous #9 4w

Is this how you felt? Cause if you’re suicidal it’s kinda hard not to be that’s the thing

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Anonymous #9 4w

Maybe educate yourself by fucking listening instead of speaking from a place of authority as if you speak for all suicidal people. Be serious

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Anonymous OP 4w

I am. Is that the truth for you

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Anonymous #9 4w

Did you read anything I just said?

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Anonymous OP 4w

I did I just know people who have said they’re suicidal but it’s not like they actually are their life just blows

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Anonymous #9 4w

So it trying to kill yourself not suicidal now? I'm confused

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Anonymous #9 4w

And your take is something I had in middle school that’s why I think you’re uneducated

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Anonymous #9 4w

I think you're an idiot in general

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Anonymous OP 4w

Yeah I mean to think you need to sacrifice yourself for other people by staying alive is pretty selfish of you in my opinion and most people who have been suicidal would probably agree. I don’t understand why you aren’t getting how people live in this state if you have been there yourself

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Anonymous #9 4w

Suicidal people can be selfish so I wouldn't be shocked that they agreed but also you're not sacrificing yourself by not killing yourself. You've apparently been there and you're not dead so clearly a lot of people figure out how to live with it

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You shut the fuck up

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Anonymous OP 4w

I got medication that induced it. I fixed the problem. Talked to my friends that actually care. Can’t say I’d be better than anyone else if I hadn’t gotten of a medication bud

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Anonymous #9 4w

Off

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Anonymous #9 4w

Sure but like you didn't kill yourself so clearly you could control yourself

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Anonymous OP 4w

No that’s why my friends were with me 24/7 during that time. Nothing would’ve stopped me

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Anonymous #9 4w

And I had a feeling it was medication induced so I knew that I would be normal again. Not everyone has a light at the end of the tunnel

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Anonymous #9 4w

Exactly so you now see my point where I literally said the girl from my hs always had friends with her so that's why she snuck out during her free period to do it

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Anonymous OP 4w

Yeah but she had no normal life to look forward to bro. That could’ve gone on for years

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Anonymous #9 4w

As far as I knew I had no normal life to look forward to

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Shut the fuck up you loser

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I'm calling you a loser because you are one

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