Anonymous #1 14h

“why not mother a grown man? you’re a woman so it’s your job to fix men isn’t it?”

8

Anonymous #1 14h

women are not rehabilitation centers or therapists. that kind of emotional labor is extremely exhausting and men should take initiative by getting therapy on their own

2

Anonymous #1 14h

I think the ones who stay traditional like staying traditional

1

Anonymous #1 14h

not all kids of traditional families are like that- im an example of that. all im saying is that people who are unhealed subconsciously imitate the relationship dynamics they grew up in

1

Anonymous #2 14h

Who said mother? Did I say you’d have to coach them? Just living with a person from a different lifestyle is enough to coax one out of their traditional ideals believe me. Being with a person from a different home life is a chore?

-3

Anonymous OP 14h

Who tf said rehab center just date a person from a different background home life and eventually with enough time they’ll grow accustomed to your dynamic and if they don’t, break up with them. Yk like a normal relationship?

-1

Anonymous #1 14h

having to "coax" or "ease" a grown adult into doing anything is babying them. its exhausting. it turns the relationship into another chore or responsibility to manage. guys need to get therapy instead of expecting women to pick up their pieces

3

Anonymous #3 14h

Oh yeah I remember all kids who were in the closet liked staying in the closet

1

Anonymous #3 14h

My point is not everyone is a fan of their home life when they were a kid so most likely they’d want to switch it up

1

Anonymous #1 14h

Coming out as lgbtq is very different from making women do all the work

1

Anonymous OP 14h

And what’s gonna happen if they’re plucked from it? Either they adapt if they’re adult enough or they learn to sink

1

Anonymous #1 14h

yes dumbass if a man expects you to do everything it LITERALLY is a chore 😭😭 why aren’t you telling them to go to therapy? why do you think a woman coaxing him or teaching him or whatever word you want to use the best solution to move away from his views? why can’t he do the work himself?

2

Anonymous #3 14h

Then why make it about women doing all the work? Just date them nobody’s asking you to do anything more. You introduce them to a new lifestyle by yk dating them and then if they like it they like if not then move on

0

Anonymous #1 14h

women arent caretakers, therapists mommies of grown men. why should i have to coach a grown adult? stop trying to normalize that. we are literally telling you that this expectation is unhealthy and wears us out but you just arent listening

6

Anonymous OP 14h

Then don’t coax or ease them???? You just get used to living with someone with a different lifestyle. Nobody’s asking you to do anything more

-2

Anonymous #2 14h

CUZ NOBODYS ASKING TO COAX OR TEACH THEM. SOMETIMES DATING SOMEONE WITH A DIFFERENT WAY OF DOING THINGS IS ENOUGH

-1

Anonymous OP 14h

Then don’t caretake or coach them? I don’t understand what’s so hard to understand that. Nobody brought up caretaking

-1

Anonymous #1 14h

Ok so you’re trolling got it

1

Anonymous #1 14h

YOU did by suggesting we "ease them out of the cycle"😭 did u read ur own comment

5

Anonymous #3 14h

Why is that what that means? Look, I found out I was gay cuz I got offered to try something new that I wasn’t initially comfortable with even tho I come from a religious household. Then I ended up liking it and then I got offered to try polyamory and even tho I wasn’t open to it I tried it and now I like it. Just have them try something don’t therapy or caretake them or coax them like whatever you guys brought up

-1

Anonymous OP 14h

Because it’s not a process like you’re making it seem it’s just something that happens to them. Nobody eased me out of my cycle it just happened

-1

Anonymous #1 14h

what are you saying bro

1

Anonymous #1 14h

i keep typing and deleting and typing responses out again bc i genuinely don’t know what to say to someone as stupid as you

7

Anonymous OP 14h

I think your points being proven

1

Anonymous OP 14h

Taking the time to ease someone out of their cycle is just the bare minimum of dating from two separate lifestyles. That’s it. Done. Isn’t that what dating culture’s all about? I am trying to say I am NOT encouraging doing men’s therapy so don’t keep shifting that shit onto me

-1

Anonymous #1 14h

good for you. did you know this post is still valid because there are billions of people with experiences that dont match yours?

3

Anonymous #3 14h

How then? I’m saying people can just change I changed. What are you two saying?

1

Anonymous #2 14h

Stupid for what? Saying people can just change is too stupid for you?

-1

Anonymous OP 14h

Then that’s fine. I’m not saying everyone’s like that

-1

Anonymous #1 14h

"ease someone out of their cycle" is called being a therapist 💀 not sure how much clearer i can be

4

Anonymous #3 14h

What point is being proven if OP is saying don’t date men who come from lifestyles where men do all the work and I’m saying not all men who come from that background expect that or are stuck with that and I’m agreeing with op saying not everyone’s like that but at least give them a chance before deciding if they’re capable of change just on their background

1

Anonymous #1 14h

that might be good general advice, but when it comes to women and dating, especially when they’re dating men, women already carry the majority of the emotional AND domestic labor in a relationship. regardless of what your intent was, suggesting women date men from backgrounds like op described - especially when your original comment implies the woman is doing something wrong if she lets that behavior “pass on to the next person” is repeating a very old very tired expectation of women being

2

Anonymous #1 14h

we never said that people cant change. i literally said in my post that its not impossible to break cycles. i dont really see how what ur saying is relevant

1

Anonymous #2 14h

responsible for the behavior of men

2

Anonymous OP 14h

Just don’t be a therapist. Just be there. Do nothing else. Just date them and if they change, swell. If not, move on

4

Anonymous #1 14h

i never said dont date these men. i just said keep your eyes open and stay woke because cycles may repeat if they are unhealed. women dont have to give any man a chance if they don't want to

1

Anonymous #2 14h

If they deserve it then let them deal with their own consequences but don’t give up on a guy with a certain background just cuz we have no idea if he can change or not. It could be like a gay awakening but instead its a guy who learns of an alternative lifestyle where there doesn’t have to be gender roles in a relationship. Cutting off traditional people from new experiences keeps them traditional

-2

Anonymous #1 14h

ohh you’re hopeless

1

Anonymous OP 14h

Then that’s fine I agree with that. I’m just saying in case someone takes it as don’t date these men

1

Anonymous #1 14h

why date someone hoping they'll change? not only is that bad advice, its unhealthy wishful thinking. do not date anyone for potential. thats a slippery slope. date someone for who they are right here right now

3

Anonymous #1 14h

once again, dating for potential is shitty advice bro

1

Anonymous OP 14h

literally like why in the world would i date someone because of who they COULD be instead of who they ARE?

2

Anonymous #2 14h

I’m not suggesting dating people with that background. I’m saying if every girl who doesn’t like that background avoids dating that background, doesn’t that just perpetuate more couples where the woman does everything cuz that’s the only option left for these men since the other women who don’t like that won’t date them? Is it that hard to understand?

-1

Anonymous #1 14h

i’ve explained to you exactly why that advice doesn’t work for women and you still can’t help but parrot the same things over and over and over. if these men are so miserable they can change for themselves. until then dating in the hopes that someone will fix you or thinking you can fix someone else is stupid as fuck. i assume you do it all the time

3

Anonymous #1 14h

the solution is for men to work on healing themselves via therapy and self reflection. not women coaxing men into behaving differently. people cannot control the family they were born into, but they can control themselves & rise above cycles.

4

Anonymous #2 14h

Okay look. People can internalize the relationship dynamics they’re surrounded by when they grow up right? And if someone isn’t aware of harm of those patterns then they may unintentionally repeat them in later relationships right? And it’s not a woman’s responsibility to rehab or mother a grown man so nobody should have to stay in an unhealthy relationship hoping that their partner will eventually change

0

Anonymous #2 14h

What I’m trying to say is that treating someone based on their family or cultural background with hesitance before you’ve actually seen how they are is what’s unfair

-1

Anonymous #1 14h

yes exactly! is any of that not good advice 😭❓

1

Anonymous #2 14h

Like you said why would you date someone because of who they could be instead of who they are. But why would you also reject someone or be less trustful of someone because of where they came from instead of who they are? Like you said, you came from a traditional household too but your initial post conflicts with those ideals meaning you don’t carry them on. But does that mean every person you date next should treat that as a deciding factor of whether or not you’re worth dating?

-1

Anonymous #1 14h

omg we did not say that. we arent saying to stereotype and make assumptions. we're saying to observe and be aware in case the dynamic presents its again within our own relationships.

5

Anonymous OP 14h

And it’s fair to be aware but its still a form of risk assessment that goes with what you said. Keep an eye on those kinds of men. The background is still being used to determine who deserves extra scrutiny. Even if it’s not outright stereotyping, it’s still suggesting that someone’s background should influence how you approach them. It’s fair to whoever should be cautious but its unfair for the other person to be evaluated as a higher risk for background alone

-1

Anonymous #1 14h

you missed the point. if they ALREADY BELIEVE and WANT those dynamics, if they DO repeat cycles because they havent gotten therapy, i will not be interested or engage whatsoever.❌ if they JUST HAPPEN to come from that family/ background, but have put forth the EFFORT to rise above those beliefs, thats fine✅

4

Anonymous OP 14h

Think about it. If you’re checking for people you’re dating based on your behavior, why specifically emphasize men from this background? Why not just say everyone should be evaluated for unequal relationship expectations? Didn’t you say you wouldn’t date someone based on who they could be instead of who they are?

-1

Anonymous #1 14h

the way someone was raised 100% influences them as a person, especially if they havent gotten therapy. it IS a huge factor. i will ALWAYS encourage women to think critically and use pattern recognition to avoid unfulfilling relationships & being hurt.

6

Anonymous #1 14h

i made this post because i felt like it and i believe it was a good message to spread. you can make your own post if you want to address a different target audience. like what do u want me to do? i dont really care

5

Anonymous OP 14h

Exactly. Someone can internalize unhealthy relationship dynamics from their upbringing and can unintentionally repeat them if they haven’t recognized or addressed these patterns and no one is obligated to date someone who genuinely expects their partner to take on the role the mother had hoping they’ll change. My point is someone isn’t obligated to ascend past their background or undergo therapy for their background to stop affecting them

-1

Anonymous OP 14h

People can recognize and change unhealthy patterns through self-reflection on experience, what they already know, or even just realizing that they don’t want what they got growing up. Therapy can help but my whole argument is that its not the only way someone can change and they don’t need another person to do it

-1

Anonymous OP 14h

There’s also a difference between being aware of someone’s background and treating it as a reason to be more suspicious of them. If someone comes from a traditional family but has consistently shown that they believe in and practice healthy relationships, then their background shouldn’t count against them which goes against your original post

-1

Anonymous #1 13h

..... ok. a lot to unpack here yes, people CAN improve without it. but the help of a degree holding, licensed PROFESSIONAL who has dedicated their LIFE to it DOES mean something. they reveal blind spots that we cant see on our own. i feel that men (and people in general tbh) who dont believe in therapy lack humility, and have a warped perception of themselves. everybody can benefit from it. once again, you're giving shitty advice

4

Anonymous #1 13h

notice how nobody said we should be suspicious. we just said to be aware. whats ur point bro can we wrap it up

1

Anonymous OP 13h

It’s not about a belief of whether therapy works. Its that assuming that men aren’t capable of change beyond it which somehow perpetuates unequal relationships which defeats the purpose. Even then there are many possible reasons someone might not believe in or pursue therapy. I filed a grievance against a therapist I was seeing when I started college who wrote false statements about intent to harm another when I wanted to look for alternatives fir a risky medication they were prescribing

-1

Anonymous OP 13h

My point is it’s a shitty mindset to assume that someone has a warped perception of themselves for not trusting therapy. It also goes against what you said that people shouldn’t make assumptions about others based on their background, but yet you make a very one sided assumption about the psyche of people who don’t trust therapy. Which is it OP?

-1

Anonymous OP 13h

“Keep an eye on” especially sounds suspicious and implies surveillance. I agree with you on everything else except for the way you phrase giving someone’s background more focus and being cautious than their actual behavior. If you’re saying their background is just context and an afterthought to their actual behavior, then there’s nothing that we disagree on

-1

Anonymous #1 13h

ok so you're consistently talking about shit that nobody brought up. NO ONE said men can't change beyond therapy.. completely irrelevant💀. maybe consider journaling man good luck with whatever you have going on. because you dont seem to be able to stay on topic or have a productive conversation

3

Anonymous OP 13h

And I can tell your point changed in this convo cuz earlier you said “we never said that people cannot change” but then you said later on “if they JUST HAPPEN to come from that family/background, but have put forth the EFFORT to rise above those beliefs, thats fine” if someone never agreed with the traditions of the household they grew up in, then why would they still need to be put into therapy to treat beliefs that they never internalized?

1

Anonymous OP 13h

My point is background isn’t something you need to rise above whether or not you internalized it or not

1

Anonymous OP 13h

You did say that tho. Look

-1

Anonymous OP 13h

You also said this so you clearly brought up therapy before I did. I didn’t bring it up out of mowhrre

0

Anonymous #1 13h

if you came from a background where unhealthy dynamics were present, you should work on yourself and get therapy to prevent that from affecting your life & relationships. i dont get how thats a bad thing to say 💀💀 did i strike a nerve by accident or something

5

Anonymous #1 13h

someone can disagree with how they were raised and still may subconsciously hold beliefs that they arent aware of. therapy can address that

5

Anonymous OP 13h

I’m saying you changed your point. I never argued against therapy as a whole but this was about how someone’s background affect how their next partner evaluates them. My point again is people from unhealthy families should work on themselves but I shouldn’t assume someone is mentally unhealthy cuz they came from a family that is which is what we disagree on

-1

Anonymous OP 13h

Yeah. Therapy can address it. That’s different than the three different sides you’ve been choosing this whole time. First you said keep an eye on these men from these backgrounds. Then you said be aware in case the issue presents itself. Then you said even if someone consciously rejects these dynamics, they may subconsciously retain them and therapy can help. Those are all different claims that don’t go together

0

Anonymous OP 13h

My question is which of those three points do you stand with?

0

Anonymous #1 13h

i didnt say you brought up therapy before me. i brought it up first by implying it in my post. lol what i DID say was that you brought up that we were "assuming that men aren't capable of change beyond therapy".... which i NEVER said if you look through all of my comments. i repeat: i NEVER SAID MEN CANT CHANGE BEYOND THERAPY. then you started talking about a personal anecdotal experience like that affects anything

1

Anonymous OP 13h

Let’s not also forget that while therapy can be useful for uncovering subconscious patterns, that still doesn’t go with another three claims you made: 1. someone who hasn’t had therapy is more likely to retain those patterns 2. someone who doesn’t believe in therapy lacks humility 3. someone cannot adequately identify their own unhealthy behaviors without professional intervention. All things you’ve said

-1

Anonymous #1 13h

i stand with everything i said buddy. i was making supporting claims and adding onto what i said- not backtracking or changing.

4

Anonymous OP 13h

You did say men cannot change therapy. You said that many many times

0

Anonymous #1 13h

those are my opinions and you dont have to agree with them. i posted online because i felt like it. you can make your own posts that you like better.

5

Anonymous #1 13h

when did i say that "men cannot change therapy"💀

1

Anonymous OP 13h

1. I brought up my experience because it doesn’t apply to you saying men who don’t trust therapy lack humility. I lack trust cuz therapy proved to do worse. My experience doesn’t stand for everyone but its not as cut dry as you made it seem

0

Anonymous OP 13h

2. Make a post that at least make sense with what you say instead of changing your own beliefs every couple of minutes when confronted

0

Anonymous #1 13h

dude i do not care about your story. you're talking to someone who doesnt care. one person wont change my overall opinion of every person who is against therapy

1

Anonymous OP 13h

3. I never agreed that men aren’t capable of change beyond therapy. I’ve been arguing against that

-1

Anonymous #1 13h

none of my beliefs changed if you read. im gonna keep posting what i want.

5

Anonymous OP 13h

You have almost several different perspectives going on in this comment section that you did in fact change. I watched it happen again and again and the fact you’re unwilling to recognize that proves you are the exact thing you’re fighting against. A person unwilling to recognize patterns and be willing to change

0

Anonymous #1 13h

you're arent comprehending what i typed. YOU assumed that WE dont believe men are capable beyond therapy. BUT NOBODY EVER ARGUED THAT. NOBODY FEELS THAT WAY. we are ON THE SAME PAGE.

3

Anonymous OP 13h

I can tell you don’t care. You’re oblivious and closed minded and it shows how ironically you’ll tell others to not make assumptions but make assumptions yourself. You are your biggest enemy here

1

Anonymous OP 13h

YOU DID SAY IT. IM LOOKING RIGHT AT IT

0

Anonymous OP 13h

I ALSO CAN SEE THIS SO CLEARLY YOU DID SAY MEN ARENT CAPABLE OF CHANGE OF CHANGE BEYOND THERAPY CUZ ITS MY ENTIRE POINT

-1

Anonymous #1 13h

did i ever say men could not change beyond therapy? nope. i didn't. i just said they could be repeating cycles because they haven't gotten therapy cry me a river dude. ur letting ur personal experiences get in the way of a good post

3

Anonymous #1 13h

that's my opinion and u dont have to agree. but i never said verbatim "men aren't capable of change beyond therapy" ur taking out ur anger at ur ex therapist on a random yikyak post💀 chill out

3

Anonymous OP 13h

I have yet to find this good post. It would change if my life if I could see this good post because you can’t even hold your post together. You went against it time after time again

-1

Anonymous #1 13h

ratio lol

4

Anonymous OP 13h

You went from saying men who don’t believe or trust therapy have a warped perspective of themselves like they’re broken. That’s way different than everyone can benefit from it right?

-1

Anonymous OP 13h

Then you went about ignoring that people can’t fix their issues without therapy otherwise you wouldn’t keep addressing it as necessary

-1

Anonymous OP 13h

Is that all you have left in the tank? No feet to stand on? You just wanna let your delusion convince you you’re right so you gave up all arguing at all? Is that why you changed your argument so many times that it barely resembles the original post?

0

Anonymous #1 13h

i believe people who are against therapy are likely to have a warped perception of themselves because they simply dont have a licensed professional that can show them their blind spots thats my opinion and i stand by it. you're not changing my mind lol but this has been very entertaining! thank you for the laughs

5

Anonymous #1 13h

i mean ive said everything i wanted to say unless u want to make up more imaginary points to linger on we're going in circles because you're the only person in this entire comment section who managed to misunderstand very healthy and reasonable advice i gave

1

Anonymous OP 13h

I beg of you. Please seek your own advice and get help to move beyond your own personal barriers. Be the change you want to see and be the first of many to step outside of their own box and do not reign your judgment over others like yours is mightier. I hope you have a good day and things will get better for you no matter what you do

-1

Anonymous #1 12h

are we about to kiss?

2

Anonymous OP 12h

Not really. I’m gay

-1