I mean I kind of get it, life is hard and people get tired of having to wage cuck. But it’s also pretty embarrassing that we’re kind of in the place where it’s as good as it’s ever been for the lowest class of society, the peasants, and yet we’re still all super whiny and ungrateful about it and would rather burn the whole thing down than have it stay as is and kind of shitty

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Anonymous OP 1d

Like it makes you wonder, how good do things have to be or what do things have to be like for the culture to not complain. Makes me wonder if it would ever be good enough And that’s not to say that like I don’t think there are genuine gripes and criticisms. Like people do have real things to be annoyed about. It’s much harder to buy a home than it used to be. And wages don’t seem like they kept pace with inflation as much as they should have over many of the last few decades. At least up until

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Anonymous OP 1d

a few years ago and covid. Seems like everything got a lot more expensive since covid and inflation wrecked people’s savings and their purchasing power a bit. And most higher education options are insanely expensive. Healthcare is not super straightforward for everybody. There are probably some things I’m forgetting But overall, I can’t imagine we’re really any worse off than any other society on Earth atm. This is probably the literal best it’s ever been and people hate it lol it’s kind of emb

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Anonymous OP 1d

embarrassing

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Anonymous OP 1d

I guess I should say with the cost of living not just keeping pace with inflation

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Anonymous #2 1d

There is plenty that China does wrong absolutely. Just because they are called the Communist party doesn’t mean that any leftist policy ultimately needs to emulate them. We can support spending more money on public infrastructure for example without revoking labor rights. Basically what I’m trying to say is evaluate the policies people state as socialist on their actual merit rather than their label.

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I don’t think there ever should be a point when we are entirely satisfied. No system will ever be perfect. It can always be tweaked and policies made to better support the people. But also currently there is such a concentration of wealth at the top, substantially more than ever before and that is what most people are upset about. It is a serious issue in this country and our politicians and policies only serve to benefit those people more.

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Anonymous OP 1d

People are upset because we are the wealthiest nation on the planet and we have the highest concentration of wealth at the top and wealth being wasted in foreign wars when it could be benefitting our citizens. We have a reason to expect our situation to be better than anywhere else in the world. And I’m not sure what you mean by best it’s ever been. The cost of living has outpaced wages significantly more than in the past.

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Anonymous #2 1d

Maybe there’s different struggles but I wouldn’t say it’s the best it’s ever been.

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Anonymous #2 1d

If you don’t think it’s the best it’s ever been where and when do you think that is, or even just where and when do you think was better than what we have in this country

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Anonymous #2 1d

We spend a lot of money in this country. More than any country ever has It really doesn’t seem to go far does it

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Anonymous #2 1d

Somebody having a lot of money doesn’t equate to a reason it should be taken from them on it’s own

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Anonymous OP 1d

It doesn’t bother me nor a lot of people that some individuals have a lot more money than me. Maybe it bothers you that some people don’t have enough money. But being angry that somebody actually has money is ludicrous

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Anonymous OP 1d

We also have the most money of any country. If we used money more efficiently instead of in foreign wars and hoarding in the ultra wealthy we’d be better off. I don’t get your “doesn’t seem to go far logic” it doesn’t go far because we aren’t utilizing the money efficiently or wasting it.

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Anonymous #2 15h

I don’t think you’ve really even looked to see what’s being spent inefficiently or that you imagine is being spent on defense and war compared to what’s spend on social transfer payments. Total US government spending is ~ 40 % of GDP The OECD average is ~ 43 % of GDP. Of which we have the largest GDP The US spends 3.4 % of GDP on defence. When looking at the portion of GDP that goes towards social transfer payments, the US comes in at 22 - 23 % when just considering public social spending. Th

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Anonymous OP 15h

OECD average is 23 - 24 % but an interesting thing happens when you consider private social spending and net total social spending, the US jumps to # 2 in the rankings just behind France. We’re a lot more socialist here than a lot of you guys think

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Anonymous OP 15h

*what *spent

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Anonymous OP 15h

And just look at where France is rn 😒, people are still extremely unhappy and it doesn’t seem to be going very well over there.

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Anonymous OP 14h

Just look at what being # 1 got them Anemic growth, lot of debt and trouble fulfilling their social obligations and everybody, most of all the young people, are unhappy enough to riot in the streets and trash the place

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Anonymous OP 9h

You’re misinterpreting these numbers. Equating private social equity with better government welfare spending is not correct. The US does rank highly in private social spending that is true, but that includes employer covered health insurance and pensions. A lot of that spending reflects higher cost of health care rather than more generous healthcare benefits. One number doesn’t really determine if we’re “a lot more socialist”.

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Anonymous #2 9h

Okay let’s pump the brakes real hard for a moment, for 2 big reasons, 1st of which is I’m not sure I understand what you just said and I’m not totally convinced you understand what you said or were trying to say And the 2nd being, I don’t think you understand what I said or the data I just provided bc what I just read does not follow logically from what came before, in other words a non sequitur or just lack of comprehension. So just so we’re all on the same page I’m going to try to paraphras

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Anonymous OP 9h

paraphrase what I think you just said:

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Anonymous OP 8h

So first of all when you say “equating private social equity” I think the term you actually want is something like, “equating private social spending” And furthermore, I don’t think I’m “equating” anything. I gave a lot of separate data points there, some of which included government spending and then other data which included private social spending What I think you’re tryinggg to say is that it’s not fair to call that “more socialist” bc some of it isn’t coming directly from the government,

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Anonymous OP 8h

and we can discuss that and talk about it if you want but let’s at least be clear that I provided data on it bc it’s relevant and regardless of whether it’s traditionally socialist or traditional socialist or communist policy or not it’s undoubtedly effective and important to examine if you want an accurate picture of where the United States stands compared to the social expenditure of other nations.

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Anonymous OP 8h

Also before I move onto the next topic, I’d also just like to note that a lottt of that private social spending is government subsidized and incentivized through tax breaks. So while it’s not direct government spending the United States (much like how China figured out how to become a hybrid capitalist - communist system in some ways and utilize the strengths they possess as an autocracy while still getting the best of both worlds with special economic zones and capitalist policies) managed to u

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Anonymous OP 8h

utilize it’s strengths as the worlds biggest capitalist society with many powerful and wealthy corporations by incentivizing and subsidizing them with tax cuts to encourage them to want to compensate their employees with healthcare and other social spending benefits. They’re leveraging their strengths (that they have because of capitalism, strong wealthy employers) in a socialist way even if it’s not what you would consider “traditionally” socialist, I’d still argue, it certainly qualifies as a

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Anonymous OP 8h

socialist like policy to leverage the means of production for the benefit of the community and the worker like that.

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Anonymous OP 8h

Also I don’t want to get too confusing and detailed but briefly we should also at least mention, private social spending is broken up into voluntary contributions and mandatory ones. Mandatory meaning things the government legally forces employers and individuals to provide.

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Anonymous OP 8h

Okay so let’s see the rest of what you said,

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Anonymous OP 8h

Uhm so, I guess what I would say about the rest of it is, you're focusing pretty heavily on the part about private social spending but I didn't just provide data only about that, like I said above, even before factoring in ANY of the private social spending, in other words, when only considering public social spending the US is already pretty much matching the OECD average. Only after considering private as well do they become # 2 on SOCX just behind France when considering net total social spe

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Anonymous OP 8h

spending. So no, it is not “one number… determin(ing) if we’re ‘a lot more socialist’”. That’s why I was concerned whether you were fully comprehending what I had said. The concern about US healthcare costing more is a fair and cogent & astute criticism but I’d also point out that the metric we’re looking at here is %’age of GDP dedicated to social spending, of which the US has the largest GDP in the entire world by a huge hugeeee margin. And I would also argue that while by no means is that c

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Anonymous OP 8h

concern a small factor in things, I do think you’re making it out to be a much bigger invalidation of the data I provided and my argument than it actually is.

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Anonymous OP 8h

Alright I’m sorry for being so long winded. That’s about all I had to say Uhm I guess I will say one more thing, I may have been a little inaccurate or imprecise in my wording or numbers or maybe there are some considerations I am not taking into account. Some of this data is not updated yearly and may ho back as far as 6 years to around the pandemic especially maybe for some OECD nations But still, we’re comparing the US to China and other developed democracies and overall I’d still say all

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Anonymous OP 8h

I’d say that overall the US measures up pretty well imo and I think this is accurate enough to get a good picture of where we stand compsred to the rest of the world. Damn I can’t believe I just spent however long I just spent on this This is like the best part of the day and I kind of wasted it just now. Well maybe not, this can be mildly fun and mildly interesting to look at sometimes. It’s at least worth looking at once in your life or once every 5 years or so just so you have a general ide

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Anonymous OP 8h

idea and accurate worldview about it. So in that sense I guess it is time well spent. Whatever I’ll shut up Again, I’m sorry for being long winded

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Anonymous OP 8h

Wonder if I should eat something.

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Anonymous OP 7h

I suppose after digesting it a bit more I can kindd of appreciate what you’re saying about not wanting to rely on “one number” Even though it’s not one number, I sort of see what you’re saying maybe a little. You are saying it’s more complicated and messier than just that and it is. But if you want to look at this stuff you have to model it somehow and compare it and this is a pretty good way, arguably a gold standard way or one of the best. And I’m sure there’s a lot of other stuff you can

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Anonymous OP 7h

Look at or other things to consider. But this is still something I don’t think people are even aware of and well it’s also just true. So there it is for what it is. Let’s be grateful about it Also I just thought of one other thing worth saying about the healthcare costs. Yeah United States health care is more expensive, but it’s also in some ways (albeit with a massive asterisk in other ways) arguably the best healthcare in the world. Especially if you have the money you can get very skilled h

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Anonymous OP 7h

healthcare providers in the US alongside fast treatment and some of the most advanced treatment in the world. I think a lot of people here don’t realize just how much people in places like Canada and the UK and other nationalized health systems complain about and do not like their services, the quality of it, the speed or just the overall system. But I’m not an expert on it nor do I know very much about it and I’m sure you can find anecdotes saying many different things & perspectives. I wonder

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Anonymous OP 7h

how ppl in countries like Switzerland, the Scandinavian countries like Norway and Sweden, Denmark, etc. have to say about their experience.

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